Flat Spin Recovery

gromm44

gromm44

Well-Known Member
Is there a standard procedure for flat spin recovery? I have read a couple of contradictory reports. They both say initially you power back and neutralize ailerons , but then one report say to pitch forward and one says to pitch back.
 
Yeah, pull the door jettison pin and get out.

Seriously though I think it depends on the aircraft. I doubt there's a standard one size fits all procedure.
 
There are mathematical principles involved that may change recovery techniques somewhat; but, the basic recovery technique in a swept wing jet is to apply full ailerons with the spin...right spin, right full stick. Pitch full aft (pull column into your lap) and rudder full opposite the direction of rotation. When your yaw rate stops, neutralize your stick (pitch) and with a coordinated smoothness, neutralize ailerons and rudder. This prevents spin reversals. I've recovered from a few of them but there is not much room for error.
 
The recovery technique for a typical acro trainer is different: throttle idle and let go of the stick completely, just don't even touch it. It will tend to pitch a little aft in the upright spin (forward in the inverted), and that will "unflatten" the spin. The rest of the recovery is standard.
 
It depends on WHY you are flat spinning.

Cloud Surfer said:
From what I have come to read, it's all but nigh impossible to recover from them.
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This is a horribly incorrect generality.

If you are in a flat spin because your aircraft is out of CG, and you have managed to get into a spin, your chances aren't good. If you are in a flat spin in an aircraft not approved for spins (probably because of undesirable spin characteristics), your chances are better but still not ideal. If you are in a flat spin because you put it there, they are easily recoverable. I have hundreds of hours of aerobatic/EMT/spin flying, most of which is teaching the stuff.

If you are spinning flat because of a gyroscopic force being applied (ie. engine power) then you reduce the engine power, and recover like a normal spin. If you are spinning flat due to aileron deflection, then you remove that input, rinse and repeat.
 
CaptBill said:
There are mathematical principles involved that may change recovery techniques some what; but, the basic recovery technique in a swept wing jet is to apply full ailerons with the spin...right spin, right full stick. Pitch full aft (pull column into your lap) and rudder full opposite the directon of rotation. When your yaw rate stops, neutralize your stick (pitch) and with a coordinated smoothness, neutralize ailerons and rudder. This prevents spin reversals. I've recovered from a few of them but there is not much room for error.
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Thanks, but why where you in a few of them? Are they more common than I thought they were or did you have some really bad luck?
 
I dont think anybody ever tries to get into one (I didn't), but I don't think they are all that uncommon. The old Navy manuals (NATOPS) didn't give many options when you were in a flat spin other than to eject above 10,000 feet. However, several successful techniques developed by fleet personnel seemed to work, but the official flight testing and evaluation of these procedures was never accomplished due to budget constraints. Some involved moving the wing sweep from 20 to 68 degrees which moved the CG aft and some techniques involved moving the flaps. The idea was to move the CG so the nose would fall. I don't know if this is a problem for new generation aircraft.
 
It's been a couple weeks since I've done a flat spin, maybe I'll go do that tomorrow. Spins are fun, and recoverable when applying the correct knowledge of them.

As mentioned earlier, the biggest question is why are you spinning? Intentional or accidental in an aircraft not approved?

They are just "a bug-a-boo" if you ask this guy:

 
Inverted said:
If you are in a flat spin because your aircraft is out of CG, and you have managed to get into a spin, your chances aren't good. If you are in a flat spin in an aircraft not approved for spins (probably because of undesirable spin characteristics), your chances are better but still not ideal. If you are in a flat spin because you put it there, they are easily recoverable. I have hundreds of hours of aerobatic/EMT/spin flying, most of which is teaching the stuff.

If you are spinning flat because of a gyroscopic force being applied (ie. engine power) then you reduce the engine power, and recover like a normal spin. If you are spinning flat due to aileron deflection, then you remove that input, rinse and repeat.
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I've done flat spins in a Citabria, we used engine power to raise the nose to the flat attitude. Is it gyroscopic that is raising the nose or is it the thrust from the engine, though?
 
gromm44 said:
Is there a standard procedure for flat spin recovery? I have read a couple of contradictory reports. They both say initially you power back and neutralize ailerons , but then one report say to pitch forward and one says to pitch back.
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Depends on the airplane, but recovery is typically conventional. I can't imagine "pitch back" being anywhere near anyone's lips when teaching any upright spin recovery.

Power idle (The power's flattening the spin), ailerons neutral (Especially if you have in-spin aileron), rudder opposite the rotation and stick forward.

If that sounds familiar ... well, it should. If not, then get thee to spin training, stat.

If you can't get the nose down in a flat spin and you don't have chutes, have your passenger climb on the instrument panel. Not even joking. If that doesn't work, open the door, jettison bags from the back or bring them forward, etc. There probably won't be time for that, but the only way to recover is to get the nose down and get the wing flying.

But the whole time you should have the power idle, aileron neutral, anti-spin rudder planted, elevator forward. In-spin aileron might help in some airframes, but that's desperation nothing-else-is-working stuff.

~Fox
 
hammerhat said:
The recovery technique for a typical acro trainer is different: throttle idle and let go of the stick completely, just don't even touch it. It will tend to pitch a little aft in the upright spin (forward in the inverted), and that will "unflatten" the spin. The rest of the recovery is standard.
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I'm not all a fan of teaching beggs mueller, myself, except for in specific aircraft as a specific-airplane procedure. If you want to avoid cross-over spins, practice proper active recoveries.

-Fox
 
Acrofox said:
rudder opposite the rotation and stick forward


But the whole time you should have the power idle, aileron neutral, anti-spin rudder planted, elevator forward
~Fox
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It all really depends on the why you got yourself into a flat spin... And depends on the aircraft. The average pilot has to very careful when using anti-spin rudder and especially forward stick in a correct CG Pitts. It's a good way to get into an inverted spin in the opposite direction. If it's not CG that was the culprit, the reduction of power should drop the nose. In many cases, one should note that simply a reduction in power and neutralizing the controls could bring you "through" a normal, but relatively faster spinning, upright spin where all things being neutral should recover fairly quickly.

In an adverse CG condition, like you said, any effort to right the CG is key.
 
Acrofox said:
I'm not all a fan of teaching beggs mueller, myself, except for in specific aircraft as a specific-airplane procedure.
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My experience is limited to Citabria and SuperD, but I found at least in those planes Beggs-Mueller technique makes smoother recovery. With active recovery it becomes easy to overcontrol the aircraft.
 
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