Flap retraction on the runway

Okie_Pilot said:
Why does it seem to me that everybody here that flies complex aircraft (read retractable gear) needs to replace their squat switches? When the weight of the acft is on the gear and your squat switch is functional, I HIGHLY doubt your landing gear system will be able to lift the gear and stow it when its under the weight of the acft.

It also helps to know which handle is which. Do you usually get yourself into a bind doing touch and goes in a retractable because you don't pay attention to which handle is the flaps and which is the gear?
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What about Cessna singles, where the squat switch is on the nose gear? You've got full back pressure in (or close to it) on touchdown on your short field landing, no? So the nose is way up there, right? And as soon as the mains touch you reach over and flip the fla....OH CRAP!

Oh, and when was the last time that squat switch was checked? Annual? You want to bet money (a lot of it!) that it hasn't broken in the last 10 months? You really think that even if the squat switch is broken, the gear won't fold on you just because of the weight of the aircraft?
 
dasleben said:
That doesn't necessarily work for short strips. In my particular aircraft, a no-flap approach adds 13 knots to Vref (108 knot minimum) with a corresponding 35% increase in landing distance.

As said before, there's a time and a place for retracting flaps on the runway. I operate on paved runways all day long and don't have any business telling these Alaska guys how they should operate into short dirt strips. If you haven't done any of that stuff, there's a good bet you don't either. No offense meant by that statement, but that world is foreign to many of us.
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This has already been addressed in this thread.
 
Cptnchia said:
172RG? Damn, I forgot about that, although only 1177 were built, I wonder how many are actually still flying.
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Probably a lot of them, at least until the FAA does away with the Complex airplane requirement for Commercial and CFI.
 
Roger said:
What about Cessna singles, where the squat switch is on the nose gear? You've got full back pressure in (or close to it) on touchdown on your short field landing, no? So the nose is way up there, right? And as soon as the mains touch you reach over and flip the fla....OH CRAP!

Oh, and when was the last time that squat switch was checked? Annual? You want to bet money (a lot of it!) that it hasn't broken in the last 10 months? You really think that even if the squat switch is broken, the gear won't fold on you just because of the weight of the aircraft?
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I already addressed this issue. How hard is it to move your eyeball slightly to the right and down for one second to make sure your hand is on the right handle?

If that's the case....Who's to say the gear won't fold on you when you raise the wrong handle once you clear the runway?


jtrain609 said:
Why not just cut out the middleman and land with no flaps, or a reduced flap setting?
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Why not just make sure your hand is on the right handle? Once again, if you land on the centerline, how hard is it to take one second to make sure your flipping the right handle?

There's comes a time when raising the flaps upon touchdown is critical to the safe execution of that landing. Granted, given this flap debate, landing a 172 in 40kt winds is a little different than landing a heavier jet or turbine in the same wind. I'll stick with what works for me. You should do the same. :beer:

I'm surprised some of you with retractable gear don't just fly around with the gear down the entire time due to the fear of failed squat switches and the possible mistake of accidentally raising the wrong handle at the wrong time....


Different flying calls for different techniques.
 
jtrain609 said:
This has already been addressed in this thread.
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Which part has already been addressed? The first point I made was a reply to your no-flap approach comment, and the second was a reminder that it's not all completely black and white.
 
I've been to 3 different flight schools, one in IL, one in IN, and one in FL. I also have time with 5 different CFIs, and I can think of at least one thing they all have in common. Each one of them stresses NO configuration changes until off the runway.

Me and John are also in agreement that touch and goes are a no go if you are not with an instructor. I'm confident in my ability to do T&Gs, but people can screw up. Especially in a complex aircraft.

More weight on the wheels won't change your braking effectiveness unless you have so much brake input that you're skidding the tires. Besides, if you stall the landing like you're supposed to, retracting the flaps shouldn't make a big difference in weight anyways.

Now hear this though. I'm not trying to tell you professional pilots how to fly your own airplanes. I realize you earned the certificates you did for a reason. However, these are just some things I have learned from instructors and noticed on my own.
 
Kestrel452 said:
More weight on the wheels won't change your braking effectiveness unless you have so much brake input that you're skidding the tires. Besides, if you stall the landing like you're supposed to, retracting the flaps shouldn't make a big difference in weight anyways.
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Just wait until you're in that mooney with winds gusting to 35, you'll change your mind when the instant you touch your brakes with the flaps down you start sliding.
 
Despite my severe lack of confidence in CFI's ability to actually fly, I was one for a brief month. I chewed a guy's ass because he immediately retracted the flaps on rollout, not because he retracted the flaps, but when he did we veered off course (I'd say centerline, but we weren't on it in the first place)

To all you expert's who have only ever flown in the right seat, whether it be a 172 for a thousand of the same hour or an RJ, please keep your opinion in perspective.

I'm just a dumb 135 guy, but I've seen this a few times: what does the weight of the aircraft have to do with anything in this debate? Are you telling me a 777 receiving an increased performance shear isn't going to go flying again? Perhaps a trip back in time to private pilot groundschool is in order.
 
dhc2tacksby said:
Despite my severe lack of confidence in CFI's ability to actually fly, I was one for a brief month. I chewed a guy's ass because he immediately retracted the flaps on rollout, not because he retracted the flaps, but when he did we veered off course (I'd say centerline, but we weren't on it in the first place)

To all you expert's who have only ever flown in the right seat, whether it be a 172 for a thousand of the same hour or an RJ, please keep your opinion in perspective.

I'm just a dumb 135 guy, but I've seen this a few times: what does the weight of the aircraft have to do with anything in this debate? Are you telling me a 777 receiving an increased performance shear isn't going to go flying again? Perhaps a trip back in time to private pilot groundschool is in order.
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Not this guy again!
 
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