Fixed wing Solo endorsements for Rotary wing Commercial guy

FlyEDouglas

FlyEDouglas

New Member
Some food for thought: A friend and I have been trying to figure this out for a few days now. It kind of reminds me how much I love/hate combing through the regs. I have a guy that has his commercial rotary-wing. He had been working on his fixed wing private with another instructor and was recently passed on to me to finish him up. He lacks the long cross country and like an hour or so of night. He wants to go get some solo time in the pattern (my schedule is hectic). My question is this... Which endorsement/s is/are required for me to solo him (pattern/within 25nm/cross countries). Keep in mind he is not a student pilot, but a commercial pilot that is not yet rated in the category. I'm on the trail but wouldn't mind anyone's insight/experiences. Thanks and happy flying!
 
Just a quick thought with no regs in front of me...

I would consider him to be a student pilot, a FW student pilot with all the limitations that being a FW student pilot comes with.

just my 2cents
 
FAR 61.63 (d)(3) is your reference, and endorsement # 62 on page 16 of AC 61-65E is your endorsement.
 
ChinookDriver said:
FAR 61.63 (d)(3) is your reference, and endorsement # 62 on page 16 of AC 61-65E is your endorsement.
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Yeah that's as far as I've gotten [btw I think you mean 61.31 (d)(3)]... but the reg says: "(3) Have received training required by this part that is appropriate to the aircraft category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is required) for the aircraft to be flown, and have received the required endorsements from an instructor who is authorized to provide the required endorsements for solo flight in that aircraft." My question: Is the endorsement for 61.31(d)(3) the only "required endorsement" for this, or by "required endorsements" does it mean any of the other solo endorsements (ie. cross country, airport within 25nm, etc). Thanks again for the help/time.
 
FlyEDouglas said:
Yeah that's as far as I've gotten [btw I think you mean 61.31 (d)(3)]... but the reg says: "(3) Have received training required by this part that is appropriate to the aircraft category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is required) for the aircraft to be flown, and have received the required endorsements from an instructor who is authorized to provide the required endorsements for solo flight in that aircraft." My question: Is the endorsement for 61.31(d)(3) the only "required endorsement" for this, or by "required endorsements" does it mean any of the other solo endorsements (ie. cross country, airport within 25nm, etc). Thanks again for the help/time.
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Whoops! I certainly did mean 61.31!

And yup, because he is not a student pilot, all that is needed is that one endorsement to act as PIC in an aircraft he isn't rated in. That endorsement is good locally, good for XCs, it covers it all.
 
On a relevant note, would it be possible for a commerciall heli guy to go straight for a commercial airplane (SE or ME) rating.

I went through the regs and all I can see is that they will need 250 total time and 50 PIC in an airplane. So theoretically one can get a solo endoresement for an airplane, build 50 hours XC, get all the training required for the comm, and never bother with the PPL.

Any thoughts?
 
YES!

And I didn't know that when I made the transition.

61.123 (h) Hold at least a private pilot certificate issued under this part or meet the requirements of Sec. 61.73; and

(61.73 is just the military pilots rule)

When I did it, I got an airplane category added to my commercial certificate ... but it said "private privileges" for airplane.

I could have done exactly way you suggested above and just added the commercial.

But, me and my flight instructor knew nothing about it, and in fact, I got a student pilot cert and got all the regular solo/ XC endorsements when I was learning to fly airplanes, even though I should have just received that PIC endorsement we talked about above.

Ahhh... if I only knew about JC back then...
 
FlyEDouglas said:
"(3) Have received training required by this part that is appropriate to the aircraft category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is required) for the aircraft to be flown, and have received the required endorsements from an instructor who is authorized to provide the required endorsements for solo flight in that aircraft."
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Another ambiguous regulation. My take on this is that all the student pilot endorsements apply. That is the safest viewpoint, and since I have thousands of helicopter hours on top of thousands of airplane hours instructing, I can see that sometimes a helicopter add-on should be treated exactly like a student pilot. There are differences in helicopter x/c. Navigation is not the same at 500'. There are many different scenario's that come up with helicopter operations on x/c.
Lost? land in a field, take a break and look at your map. Weather? Land in a field and wait it out. The point is that I believe the 61.31 endorsement can include limitations just like a student pilot endorsement. The instructor has the option. He can make it all-inclusive or write in limitations on x/c or whatever.

At the end of the day, the instructor is responsible to "provide the required training and endorsement(s)" It's your call.
 
nosehair said:
The point is that I believe the 61.31 endorsement can include limitations just like a student pilot endorsement. The instructor has the option. He can make it all-inclusive or write in limitations on x/c or whatever.
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Completely agree. I take 61.31 to be the minimum required, but limitations are an instructor's friend.
 
SkyKing said:
On a relevant note, would it be possible for a commerciall heli guy to go straight for a commercial airplane (SE or ME) rating.

I went through the regs and all I can see is that they will need 250 total time and 50 PIC in an airplane. So theoretically one can get a solo endoresement for an airplane, build 50 hours XC, get all the training required for the comm, and never bother with the PPL.

Any thoughts?
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Sure. He already =is= a Commercial Pilot. All he is doing is adding a category/class rating to his certifciate under 61.63 (this time it =is= 61.63 ;) )
 
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