First Seminole Flight

[AeroT]

What was yours like? I arrive at ATP in GKY on Sunday and will probably get to jump into the Seminole next week. I'm transitioning from a 172 so I'm sure there will be a difference. Do you cut power 10-20 feet above the runway like in a 172? Is it that much faster? Any advice to make my time easier would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Douglas]

What was yours like? I arrive at ATP in GKY on Sunday and will probably get to jump into the Seminole next week. I'm transitioning from a 172 so I'm sure there will be a difference. Do you cut power 10-20 feet above the runway like in a 172? Is it that much faster? Any advice to make my time easier would be greatly appreciated!

Don't worry about it or think it is a large step. You'll find that it is heavy, slow and stable...ultimately a good trainer.

Don't chop the power. I liked to time a slow reduction of the throttles so that I'd hit idle as my mains touched down on the verge of a stall, in a flat attitude when compared to the skyhawk.
It worked well in that plane, but not so well in other twins.

 

[jeepthrills]

listen to your instructor!!

you will probably spend some time in the sim before you touch the plane to make sure you have your checklists/flows down cold. Just know your supplement and checklist lke the back of your hand...you will do fine.

 

[MichaelC]

My first flight in the Seminole? I finally felt like a real pilot. The things I remember most were how quickly it climbed, how easy steep turns were (no rudder required!), and how different it was to land. Listen to the post above about landings and you'll do fine! Have fun!!

 

[hrjet]

What was yours like? I arrive at ATP in GKY on Sunday and will probably get to jump into the Seminole next week. I'm transitioning from a 172 so I'm sure there will be a difference. Do you cut power 10-20 feet above the runway like in a 172? Is it that much faster? Any advice to make my time easier would be greatly appreciated!

If I remember correctly the Seminole tends to be a nose heavy airplane so when you land the nose is going to want to slam on the ground so even after you touch down keep back pressure to "catch" the nose.

Other than that. I remember the Seminole lands completely different than the 172. The 172 is like landing a brick where as the Seminole lands like an actual airplane, you might even need a little power as you touch down. Don't cut the power like in a 172. The seminole takeoff and approach speeds are a little higher but very managable. Very little rudder is needed on the seminole as well because of the counter rotatign props. Overall, easy to fly.

 

[nutz4life]

Other than that. I remember the Seminole lands completely different than the 172. The 172 is like landing a brick where as the Seminole lands like an actual airplane, you might even need a little power as you touch down. Don't cut the power like in a 172. The seminole takeoff and approach speeds are a little higher but very managable. Very little rudder is needed on the seminole as well because of the counter rotatign props. Overall, easy to fly.

If the 172 is like a brick on landing it seems you are flaring too high and letting it slam down...that plane is by no means a brick. I'd say it's more like a vulnerable toy that indivduals from a certain country who shall remain nameless can't land without a tail strike or bending a firewall..at UND :rotfl:
The low wing piper singles are more like a brick, they can take the abuse.

 

[mattyt98]

If the 172 is like a brick on landing it seems you are flaring too high and letting it slam down...that plane is by no means a brick. I'd say it's more like a vulnerable toy that indivduals from a certain country who shall remain nameless can't land without a tail strike or bending a firewall..at UND :rotfl:
The low wing piper singles are more like a brick, they can take the abuse.

:yup::yup::yup::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
Not sure about the und thing as I have no experience with them but a 172 is light as a feather and about the easiest airplane in the world to make squeakers in. The Seminole is a dog but very easy to fly. The original poster will enjoy the step up performance wise!

 

[7700]

The 172 is like landing a brick

uhh, what planet were you landing a 172 on?

 

[Callador]

uhh, what planet were you landing a 172 on?

Jupiter. Just remember the saying, red over red spot = dead.

And for those saying to chop the power in a C172, you can land like that... but you can land with a little power too. This is especially true with large gusts and crosswinds. I wouldn't cut it all 20ft up and hope for the best!

 

[avi8tor1983]

22 and 23, 2 green left 6 right, cowl flaps as required, fuel pumps landing light, recognition light, then we lean the mixture one at a time, because if we kill both engines we will F'in Die!!!

I'll never forget the cruise checklist due to that put into a song. Its stuck in my head for all eternity. Don't chop the power as others have said, leave some in until over the numbers then slowly bring it back. The first time you fly it you will feel like a real pilot, then when you go for your SEL add ons, you will hate the 172 haha. Have fun with it! The IR was hard for me, getting used to both engines and all the time in the sim. The cross country phase is the best! Its a ton of fun, so have fun with it.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[hrjet]

And for those saying to chop the power in a C172, I wouldn't cut it all 20ft up and hope for the best!

Actually that's every landing on a 172. If you can land a 172 you can land anything, not to mention you have to stall the thing so you don't bounce a couple of times. Sorry but as far as landing goes, no 172 landing is the same, hence landing a brick, bucket, wet sponge, truck, bus etc etc...

 

[Snuggles]

When you're used to the Skyhawk, the first PA44 flight is very exciting. Don't worry too much about the mechanics of flying it until you actually get in there with an instructor. Trust them to instill good twin-flying habits in you from the very first flight.

The best advice I can offer to be prepared for your first day of class is:

- Study the first 16 pages of the Seminole Training Supplement and be able to answer all of the oral exam questions in the back.
- Be able to recite from memory the engine-failure checklist, at least up to VERIFY BY CLOSING THROTTLE.

Have fun/good luck/stay safe!

 

[nocturnalaviator]

Reciting is one thing, doing the actions while mouth is moving like a ducks rearend is another. Example: "Maintain directional control pitch attitude, airspeed" All the while we're banking 30 degrees into dead engine, and screaming at 110 kts, at that point it's all rote. Take your time, be methodical and deliberate with the engine-out checklist. There is no reason to rush. Of course the actions must be memorized, but FLY THE AIRPLANE, trim for 88 (or a faster speed whichever is holding altitude, if not then 88) hold heading. I see this every day, and they all make mistakes when it's a contest to see who can do it the fastest. "Great job you just feathered the one that's working in record time!" Unbelievable, i've seen it! That's why my hand guards the detents of the quadrant every time I pull a throttle back for sim engine fail. They're out there to kill! If you find that your mouth is running faster than your hands or visa versa, STOP. Then catch up, and keep em synchronized.

 

[Clocks]

Reciting is one thing, doing the actions while mouth is moving like a ducks rearend is another. Example: "Maintain directional control pitch attitude, airspeed" All the while we're banking 30 degrees into dead engine, and screaming at 110 kts, at that point it's all rote. Take your time, be methodical and deliberate with the engine-out checklist. There is no reason to rush. Of course the actions must be memorized, but FLY THE AIRPLANE, trim for 88 (or a faster speed whichever is holding altitude, if not then 88) hold heading. I see this every day, and they all make mistakes when it's a contest to see who can do it the fastest. "Great job you just feathered the one that's working in record time!" Unbelievable, i've seen it! That's why my hand guards the detents of the quadrant every time I pull a throttle back for sim engine fail. They're out there to kill! If you find that your mouth is running faster than your hands or visa versa, STOP. Then catch up, and keep em synchronized.

Heh that is so true. Students forget they are there to learn to do the memory items and checklist correctly (not as fast as possible) when you simulate an engine failure.

 

[SoonerAv8r]

Reciting is one thing, doing the actions while mouth is moving like a ducks rearend is another. Example: "Maintain directional control pitch attitude, airspeed" All the while we're banking 30 degrees into dead engine, and screaming at 110 kts, at that point it's all rote. Take your time, be methodical and deliberate with the engine-out checklist. There is no reason to rush. Of course the actions must be memorized, but FLY THE AIRPLANE, trim for 88 (or a faster speed whichever is holding altitude, if not then 88) hold heading. I see this every day, and they all make mistakes when it's a contest to see who can do it the fastest. "Great job you just feathered the one that's working in record time!" Unbelievable, i've seen it! That's why my hand guards the detents of the quadrant every time I pull a throttle back for sim engine fail. They're out there to kill! If you find that your mouth is running faster than your hands or visa versa, STOP. Then catch up, and keep em synchronized.

30 degrees of bank might be a lil excessive. How about 3-5 degrees?

 

[soonerpilot06]

Example: "Maintain directional control pitch attitude, airspeed" All the while we're banking 30 degrees into dead engine, and screaming at 110 kts, at that point it's all rote. Take your time, be methodical and deliberate with the engine-out checklist. There is no reason to rush.

I agree with taking your time. Even if you lost the engine at 500' AGL, if you do nothing to decrease drag and increase performance, you will have about 2 minutes before you hit the ground (assuming the airport is somewhere near sea level). However, 30 degrees bank is excessive. I think it would be difficult to maintain situational overview with 30 degrees of bank operating single engine in IMC. I understand that may be an initial step until the engine is secured, but it is still a critical phase where awareness/control are crucial.

 

[Oxman]

Memorize your emergency checklist. The sim there is a good one.

 

[determined2fly]

listen to your instructor!!

you will probably spend some time in the sim before you touch the plane to make sure you have your checklists/flows down cold. Just know your supplement and checklist lke the back of your hand...you will do fine.

I just got my box of books...I have been studying the training supplement for the seminole. Do we have to pretty much memorize the supplement from cover to cover? I see that there are questions in the back of the supplement that they want you to know prior to arrival. The checklist flows you speak of, is that found in the POH or are you referring to the emergency check list in the seminole supplement? I just got the box on Friday and call center was already closed, I was supposed to call them as instructed when i receive the box of books....I will be doing that on Monday. I start on September 6, I hope two weeks is enough time to go over the material that want me to go over. In addition to studying the material, im moving out of my apartment and packing...lot's of work involved when you move from state to state. Thank you.

 

[nocturnalaviator]

30 degrees of bank might be a lil excessive. How about 3-5 degrees?

I agree with taking your time. Even if you lost the engine at 500' AGL, if you do nothing to decrease drag and increase performance, you will have about 2 minutes before you hit the ground (assuming the airport is somewhere near sea level). However, 30 degrees bank is excessive. I think it would be difficult to maintain situational overview with 30 degrees of bank operating single engine in IMC. I understand that may be an initial step until the engine is secured, but it is still a critical phase where awareness/control are crucial.

Did I ever say that I teach to bank the airplane 30 degrees during simulated engine out scenarios? SLOW DOWN, GO BACK, AND READ WHAT I SAID. Students such as yourself (possibly) who are quick to react, quick to talk, think they know so much of what they don't know are the most unsafe pilots out there. Yet when you do go back and read what i originally said, and it's quite clear that the example was such that a student who is rushing through memory items or checklist items rather than flying the airplane is losing control eg: 30 degrees into the INOP engine. SLOW DOWN, THINK!

 

[determined2fly]

Did I ever say that I teach to bank the airplane 30 degrees during simulated engine out scenarios? SLOW DOWN, GO BACK, AND READ WHAT I SAID. Students such as yourself (possibly) who are quick to react, quick to talk, think they know so much of what they don't know are the most unsafe pilots out there. Yet when you do go back and read what i originally said, and it's quite clear that the example was such that a student who is rushing through memory items or checklist items rather than flying the airplane is losing control eg: 30 degrees into the INOP engine.

wow...that was quick...yes, it is clear you were just setting up a scenerio and not suggesting banking 30 degrees...

:hiya:I was hoping someone had a response to my post