Firefighting Question

Malko

Malko

ughhh
Staff member
Ran across this picture on airliners.net:

936096.jpg


My question, is why on earth would the plane perform a loop or even attempt to dump water in this manner? Is the photo flipped or do they do this on a regular basis. The picture just looks wrong.
 
FlyingNole said:
wow, i never knew water could go "up."


The photo is inverted. Look closely at the water and you'll figure it out.
Click to expand...

Really.....:eek: the photo description (which obviously isn't here) gives the impression that the plane is dumping water as it is in a loop. Which is why I asked the question in the first place.
 
They only dump this way when they have to get out of the way of the radioactive water they are dropping on communists.
LOL

Ok, upon further examination of the photo on airliners.net, I cannot see any sign of a shadow. I can see the glare from what I assume to be the sun. Maybe this thing is inverted letting the H2O loose.
If so, awesome. The photographer should have included the ground or horizon. It would have left little doubt.
 
MikeD...Can you weigh in on this one?

eta71 said:
They only dump this way when they have to get out of the way of the radioactive water they are dropping on communists.
LOL

Ok, upon further examination of the photo on airliners.net, I cannot see any sign of a shadow. I can see the glare from what I assume to be the sun. Maybe this thing is inverted letting the H2O loose.
If so, awesome. The photographer should have included the ground or horizon. It would have left little doubt.
Click to expand...

See...That's what I was talking about. The description and photo leads one to believe something different than what would 'seem normal'.

Where's MikeD? I believe he may have done some firefighting...

Oh, I forgot...Last word, he was enjoying the sun and sand at Hickam AF Base on Oahu.
 
Apparently MikeD has dishonored himself and he has dishonored the platoon. Abandoning his post.
How dare he!
He would be the one to know too. Hickam, I have been there. Hallowed ground.
They never patched up the bullet holes in the buildings from WWII. Well that was back in '79 or '81 when I was younger.
 
FlyChicaga said:
Possibly showing off in an airshow? I see those bombers all the time in Canada.
Click to expand...


I'm here! LOL. My take on this is that it likely isn't a loop.......let's say I'd be very surprised if it was. Why do a loop in a plane like that is beyond me, which is why I don't buy it. Besides, it's a gravity drop system....I don't think the water would be "dropping" like it is coming to the back side of a loop.
 
dude i may be wrong but im going to have to go with flyingnole on this one. its got to be photoshopped. plus i cant imagine why or even seeing a sane pilot pulling that loop much less while discharging its load. hey thats just me though
 
MikeD said:
I'm here! LOL. My take on this is that it likely isn't a loop.......let's say I'd be very surprised if it was. Why do a loop in a plane like that is beyond me, which is why I don't buy it. Besides, it's a gravity drop system....I don't think the water would be "dropping" like it is coming to the back side of a loop.
Click to expand...


I go with Mike on this one. My dad's shop worked on the Canadair Bombers and did some conversions of the Trackers. Gravity feed works only ONE way. Even if it was possible this plane was pulling this manouver just after dumping water or before it finished ( this would explain the water going up) but with the weight of the water and with the specific systems it is not possible for the plane under it's airfram limits to pull this type of manouver. The reason they have the gravity feed system is becuae in the event of an emergency and / or loss of electrical power, the doors can be manually released and the gravity feed system uses the water weight to dishcharge itself.

So I am going to go with ..................umm........not accurate.

If you turn your head and look at the picture with the plane righted up.....it looks like a clasic, perfect water drop. Could have been honest mistake or some photographer trying to pull a monster wool over some people.
Brent
 
I think that it has been rotated 90 degrees, and he is actually in a steep climb, throwing water by centrifugal force. The photograph is claimed to have been taken at the Malta air show.
90.jpg

(Right click, "Save As")
 
Ok, now that picture I'll buy.
I thought it may have been rotated closer to put the a/c straight and level, but this pic is the way I believe it was taken. What a bs'er to put it on airliners and leading people to think it was inverted.
Jackhole!
Hey Mike, did you enjoy my FMJ line? They're paying for it, you eat it. We need to find that photographer and give him the jelly donut.
 
i hate to do this but i still doubt thats right,however much closer. take a look at the way the waters falling. just a suggestion but what if it were in a dive. i am very limited in what i can get these computers to do for me so ill let someone else try to rotate it. otherwise just stand on your head and youll see what im talking about
 
I may be missing somthing here...................but..............if a plane od this size, loaded with water is in a dive or a climb....wouldn't the elevator be more manipulated than it is ...if it is at all manipulated for a climb?????????????When dropping water, these planes have to be a ta slower speed. This is why the flaps are dropped. If it were to be dropping up like this I would think it would be dangerously close to stalling. IMHO

The thing too is that water when droped from a climb like that would be curved......this is straight. I sent this picture to a friend of my Dad's who flies Tracker water bombers and he said that dropping in a climb like this is not likley. Not accurate nor is there any logical purpose to it. If he is climbing an obstacle than he would fly straight, drop water first, then pull up. Or he would just fly higher. When in a dive, the water is pushed back and will not flow as smooth as in the pic. He is ademant about this puppy being flow straight and level. To further his point he says to turn your head and look at the pic with the plane flying staright and level. The elevator is in fact turned up. This would indicate the pilot is giving the aircraft more down attitude to compansate for the massive weight reduction as the water is being dumped.


Brent
 
Sorry for taking so long........some training courses.

I would say that pic is better.

Even at an airshow........that would be a HUGE stress on the aircraft, don't you think??
I'm just saying that when we shoot water out of the fire hoses up in the air in curves. This is straight ut. even the long streams are stright. Really shouldn't happen while in a climb methinks.

besides all this though.......anyway you look at it....it is a NICE pic of the plane!!!


Brent
 
Well guys, I think that I was wrong when I said that the photo was rotated 90 degrees.

I believe that it was correct as originally shown!

Doing a little searching I found a thread on a.net discussing the photo (actually there are a couple of threads about it), and in this particular thread the photographer replies to people's questions, and includes a series of 4 sequential shots showing the plane pulling up into the half loop (and apparently rolls right side up at the top).

Don't believe me? Here you go! (see reply #18)



(I hate it when I'm wrong. Getting used to it though. Been married for seven years now.) :)
 
If you go the Bombardier website and look for the CL-415, you can see some videos of it dropping water. It can drop while climbing, but nothing as extreme as either of these videos implies.

The website is at [SIZE=-1]www.bombardier.com/index.jsp[/SIZE]
 
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