Final Approach Speed
- Thread starter RobertB
- Start date
Jet
Well-Known Member
Typically at my company we drop the gear about 5 miles out, add final flaps and are at final approach speed at 3-4 miles. This is close to the profile in the company manual we were trained on so most stick close to it. At the latest we are required to be at final approach speed by 500ft on a visual which is 1.7 miles out (this varies at diff. airlines). It is not a big deal or an extra burden too slow early, it just burns a little more fuel with the extra drag out and higher thrust setting required. In the past I've slowed early if I notice I'm closing the gap too much on the traffic in front.
Thanks for the quick reply. I was just wondering because I had a pilot get pissy earlier about being reduced to his final approach speed 8-10 miles from the airport. It was either run them tight 2.5 where they would see each other or start going out for 22-25 mile ILS PRMs...
z987k
Well-Known Member
Was it a truboprop? I flew mine at 250 until 6-7 out unless told to do otherwise. It was annoying to be told to slow to some airspeed and then get vectored all over the place to get behind a jet doing 80-100kts less.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
Most jet profiles tend to be built to be fully configured at the marker. However, as you know in IMC, stable at 1000' which is about 3 miles from the threshold.
Those pilots could have been grumpy about something trivial (it's going to add 1 minute to their arrival) or something operational (such as not wanting to expose great and more flap surface and wing in icing). Either way, there are better ways to communicate it...
Those pilots could have been grumpy about something trivial (it's going to add 1 minute to their arrival) or something operational (such as not wanting to expose great and more flap surface and wing in icing). Either way, there are better ways to communicate it...
z987k
Well-Known Member
I'd say that depends on the company's SOP.
GypsyPilot
Mohawk Town
Guys like this are complete idiots. Reducing your speed a few miles out adds a few seconds at most to the arrival time. It's not a big deal at all, I'm always glad to help you guys out.
GypsyPilot
Mohawk Town
With a couple of exception (like ASE), we need to be configured by 1,000' above TDZE. This is tracked by FOQA.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
In the jets I've flown, most could keep the speed up to about 4 or 5 miles to touchdown (200-210 with out pushing it) and still be configured by 3 miles. Again, depends on the machine.
Again, different types, even from the same manufacturer, you'll have variations.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
I'll happily slow down whenever you'd like. Realize the pissy pilot is going to be part of that 10% rule we all just put up with. Feel free to offer that you'll need to take them around if they exceed 150K. I'd imagine that would do the trick. What bothers me is the 180 to the marker.
No it was a MD88
I don't know how we stayed on visuals all day today. Guys were breaking out at 4,500-4,700 feet and we were working our backsides off to turn 10-12 mile finals while insuring vertical and lateral separation with other aircraft instead of going out for triple ILS PRMs. I was just shocked to hear that pissy pilot when I'm busting my rear to save them 10+ minutes of flying time to the airport.
What would be your ideal speed to maintain to the marker and what aircraft do you fly?
FM_Weasel
Well-Known Member
What verbiage was used to affect this speed reduction? If it was something like "reduce to final approach speed" then I could understand the pilot's disagreement, since that is not a proper instruction.
flyinggreasemnky
Well-Known Member
At YX, we are supposed to be configured by 1,000' IMC but don't have to be at speed and configured on a visual until 500' (with engines spooled). 170-180kts to 5 miles usually is pretty easy to do. 190 is the speed if you want us to drop like a rock (we can put in flaps 3 and FLCH). At 170kts, we can be fully configured for landing and just have to take out some power to be at final approach speed. 220kts is an important speed for us as that allows us flaps 1 which take forever to come out. So we can't do 250kts to the marker but we could easily handle 210-220kts. Although, a new guy flying the ERJ-170/190 would have probably have trouble doing 220kts to the FAF.
The above verbiage is used all the time especially on monitor. It is plain language that gets the point across. Do you think it should have been "reduce to slowest practical speed?"
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
I fly 757 and 767. Approach speeds are based on landing weight. I must be on speed at 1000 AGL and am "encouraged" to be on speed "before" 1000 AGL in IMC conditions. A heavy 767 I might be close to 150 knots while on speed. Going fast to the marker is less difficult in this situation. An empty 757 I have to slow down to 120 knots to be on speed. And it's hard to slow down. My ideal speed to the marker is me being able to fly the plane the way I want that day without ATC needing to intervene. I know that's not always realistic and am more than happy to help you with speed restrictions. I'm not in a hurry.
I'm not trying to dodge your question but there is no "ideal" final speed for all conditions and that's part of the problem. ATC is used to jets doing 140 on final and then I come along one day needing to do 120. What you need to understand is I'm not going slow for fun or to tick you off. I'm just flying the jet in the ultra conservative manner my company demands.