Staff member
Doug (or anyone),

Why do many airlines still require an FE written or FEJ as part of the hiring process if many of them don't fly the 727, DC-10, or 747 classics anymore?

Considering that passenger airlines began to retire their 727's and thus stopped hiring as well, I don't think they've revised their minimum requirements.

I think Federal Express and UPS still require them though.
I do not have the 121 FAR's, but I think it is required to have a FE written on the newer large aircraft. Since there is no FE anymore, the pilots fulfill this function along with the automated systems. You still want the pilots to know what is going on. Your FE written does not expire if you work for a 121 or 135 operator, but most places want you to have a current one wnen hired, since your continued employment at other places since you took the test is hard to document. The regionals do not require the FE written as it is not required for their aircraft. I tried to reference this but could not find it quick in any of my books... Maybe someone else knows for sure.
§ 121.387 Flight engineer.

No certificate holder may operate an airplane for which a type certificate was issued before January 2, 1964, having a maximum certificated takeoff weight of more than 80,000 pounds without a flight crewmember holding a current flight engineer certificate. For each airplane type certificated after January 1, 1964, the requirement for a flight engineer is determined under the type certification requirements of § 25.1523.

§ 25.1523 Minimum flight crew.

The minimum flight crew must be established so that it is sufficient for safe operation, considering --

(a) The workload on individual crewmembers;

(b) The accessibility and ease of operation of necessary controls by the appropriate crewmember; and

(c) The kind of operation authorized under § 25.1525. The criteria used in making the determinations required by this section are set forth in appendix D.

§ 25.1525 Kinds of operation.

The kinds of operation to which the airplane is limited are established by the category in which it is eligible for certification and by the installed equipment.
Here some trivia for ya!

Did you know that the original 767 had a flight engineer?
I thought only Ansett ordered the 76 that way? That's gotta be boring as hell,being a FE on a completely computerized jet.

BTW, Doug.....are the rumors about the FEw true? I've heard that it is a bear of a test and that the 72 ground school is just as bad!
Well, the 767 really wasn't designed as a 3-man cockpit, but it was more or less originally created with a FE because of FAR requirements.

I -think- it was the first passenger twin-engine jet certified for ETOPS, but don't quote me on this. I -think- it was required to have three crewmembers for transoceanic flights.

If you look at the modern day 767 cockpits, the FE stand is more or less still there. I've been told told that Boeing simply took what was on the FE panel and moved it to the overhead.
I know that several regionals such as ACA and ASA supposedly require the FE written. I think that it is mainly to show that you have some idea of jet operations. I got hired without it, but I was studying for it.
I went to one of the 'factories' up in Chicago for my FE written. Show up at 7am, go thru a bunch of tips, hints and nuemonics, test by 1pm, at home back in MKE by 3pm with a 98%!
Well, the 767 really wasn't designed as a 3-man cockpit, but it was more or less originally created with a FE because of FAR requirements.

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No wonder the jump-seat on B767 is more comfortable than any of the other aircraft-More spacious and comfortable.