Ferrying a Plane

N519AT

Ahh! This is how I change this!
I turned this opportunity down, but I figured I would ask here anyway.

I have a friend who just a sold a Cessna 150 to a guy Alabama. I was wondering would it be legal to fly the plane down to Alabama for my friend? The buyer would buy me a plane ticket back to TOL. No compensation, and I wouldn't be logging the time.

I have a Private w/ Instrument. I'm leaning heavily towards no, but I want to be sure.
 
The FAA regards flight time as "compensation" which I think is a complete crock of dookie but it doesn't really matter what "I" think.


Finish your commercial and all that magically disappears simply because you can do a chandelle!
 
Why would they compensating you... aren't you just flying the plane to Alabama? So anytime I fly anyone else's plane, I'm breaking regs? I can't just fly someone else's plane to fly their plane?

Geesh, I need to learn chandelles ;)
 
you can fly it if you dont log it. then you're just doing a personal favor and seeing the sights.

go for it!
 
you can fly it if you dont log it. then you're just doing a personal favor and seeing the sights.

go for it!


Even if the guy pays for my airline ticket back and they're covering all expenses between there and here? Hotel if I need it, gas, oil, food, etc
 
Why would they compensating you... aren't you just flying the plane to Alabama? So anytime I fly anyone else's plane, I'm breaking regs? I can't just fly someone else's plane to fly their plane?

Geesh, I need to learn chandelles ;)

If you are not paying for your share of the operating expense and logging it then yes.
 
Even if the guy pays for my airline ticket back and they're covering all expenses between there and here? Hotel if I need it, gas, oil, food, etc


Look at it this way. It might only cost 500 dollars to actually ferry the plane out there, but its worth it to him to put up 2 grand worth of expenses to not have to go out there and do it himself.

In the over-all scheme, if his time is worth more than yours, how exactly are you being compensated? In his opinion, you're doing him a favor.


And i don't mean to sound crass, but next time take the opportunity for great flight. I mean really, the FAA isn't waiting to bust everyone that takes someone flying in exchange for a tank of gas.

Sorry, just my point of view.
 
He is asking is it legal to do this ferry flight, not whether or not he would get caught doing the flight.

To log the flight you would have to pay your share of the flight. If you not going to log it I would not see why not.

If he logged it would he get caught, probably not. I'd take the flight and have fun.
 
Legally speaking, it makes no difference whatsoever if you log it or not. All that you are required to log is your flight reviews every other year, and if you are carrying passengers, the applicable 90 day currency.
 
The FAA sees this as you know it probably falls under a commercial flight (for hire or compensation, you're not for hire, but you're being compensated with goodwill, a flight home, flight time, and having fun... not kidding, the FAA may list that), but you're trying to avoid it being so. If you have any doubt, it's commercial.

I would not risk it. Sure it'd be fun, and you may be able to argue your way out of it, but so far the FAA does not have a sense of humor I'm aware of.
 
Yes, I'd fly it. Yes, I'd log it. And yes, I'd have fun doing it. This bullcrap about flight time being deemed "compensation" is exactly why I don't want the government in charge of my healthcare (not trying to turn this into a political thread hijack). I'd like to meet the clown at the FAA who came up with that nonsense. The intent of the reg is to keep people from profiting from their flying w/o a commercial ticket. Man, if lawyers were in charge of moving airplanes, not a single flight would ever take off. The purpose of logging flight time is to keep track of FAA-required currency. How the hell is that compensation? By that logic, it'd be illegal to accept an aviation scholarship for advanced flight training, since you're paying less that the pro-rated share, as is also the case if someone has their parents pay for some or all of their expenses. Oh, and if you can't log the time, then I guess you can't gain experience and learn from your mistakes as a PPL, because that's also "compensation". Gimmie a freaking break! That said, at least take your friend with you and pitch in half the cost of fuel, oil, and whatever else the reg says you have to "share" expenses for. Also, I don't remember reading that you necessarily have to pay using money--surely you can buy your friend multiple rounds of beer and call it even. However, I probably wouldn't leave a paper trail that shows he charged everything to his credit card, and thus you have no means to prove that you "shared" the expenses with him. And do yourself a favor--don't give the FAA any reason down the road to dig deeper into the private affairs of you and your friend.
 
If you're paying the operating cost of the airplane, I.E. gas, oil, tiedown etc. All you're doing is borrowing an airplane. If they pay the operating cost, then they've hired you to fly and you're breaking a rule.


I don't see the problem here, and I definitely would log the time.
 
you're paying the operating cost of the airplane, I.E. gas, oil, tie down etc. All you're doing is borrowing an airplane. If they pay the operating cost, then they've hired you to fly and you're breaking a rule.

Here's a interesting way to look at it. Me and my father were discussing this and he brought up that fact that from a lawyers point of view they could make the case that if you borrow someone else plane and pay for oil, gas, tie down etc you are still being compensated because your not paying part of their hangar or part of their insurance or part of their annual bill and since at the end of the year all that is figured into the hourly cost of ownership your not truly paying for your full use of the airplane. I know that's getting a little crazy but that's how a lawyer sees it, at least my dad. lol
 
Here's a interesting way to look at it. Me and my father were discussing this and he brought up that fact that from a lawyers point of view they could make the case that if you borrow someone else plane and pay for oil, gas, tie down etc you are still being compensated because your not paying part of their hangar or part of their insurance or part of their annual bill and since at the end of the year all that is figured into the hourly cost of ownership your not truly paying for your full use of the airplane. I know that's getting a little crazy but that's how a lawyer sees it, at least my dad. lol

I dunno about that, but I guess a lawyer can argue whatever they want. I wouldn't call a hanger bill an operating expense. It's his choice to keep the plane in a hangar when it's not being used, but it's not necessary to operate the airplane like fuel and oil are.
 
I agree it was just a interesting conversation so I thought I would share. My dad always says it doesn't matter if your right or wrong all that matters is how good your lawyer is.
 
Has anyone ever read the Yodice article in AOPA Pilot about "Hard cases make bad law?"

I think this is probably one of those hard cases.
 
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