Feds: Obesity Raising Airline Fuel Costs
- Thread starter bap327
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aloft
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
The federal government has declared war on fat people.
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The problem is--if you believe the late Robert Atkins, MD--that the front lines of the war on obesity will run right through the farm belt. According to Atkins, public enemy #1 is corn--specifically, all the things food manufacturers have learned to do with corn and its derivatives. Don't believe me? Next time you're at your grocer's, see how difficult it is to find anything that doesn't include high fructose corn syrup. It's an easily manufactured sweetener that's in practically everything from ketchup to soft drinks.
As I've hashed out here before, the obesity epidemic kicked into high gear with the switch from the 4 food groups--a fairly balanced diet--to the carbohydrate-heavy food pyramid. The problem is, farmers make more money off a carbohydrate-heavy diet than off one of principally proteins and fats. Worse, the real answer is that farmers make more money in federal farm subsidies LIMITING production of certain crops. And if you think the gummint's gonna take that away to solve the fat problem, you've forgotten that all those farm belt states (except for Iowa, ironically) went to Bush in Tuesday's election.
One more thing:
arguepolitics.com!
The federal government has declared war on fat people.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is--if you believe the late Robert Atkins, MD--that the front lines of the war on obesity will run right through the farm belt. According to Atkins, public enemy #1 is corn--specifically, all the things food manufacturers have learned to do with corn and its derivatives. Don't believe me? Next time you're at your grocer's, see how difficult it is to find anything that doesn't include high fructose corn syrup. It's an easily manufactured sweetener that's in practically everything from ketchup to soft drinks.
As I've hashed out here before, the obesity epidemic kicked into high gear with the switch from the 4 food groups--a fairly balanced diet--to the carbohydrate-heavy food pyramid. The problem is, farmers make more money off a carbohydrate-heavy diet than off one of principally proteins and fats. Worse, the real answer is that farmers make more money in federal farm subsidies LIMITING production of certain crops. And if you think the gummint's gonna take that away to solve the fat problem, you've forgotten that all those farm belt states (except for Iowa, ironically) went to Bush in Tuesday's election.
One more thing:
arguepolitics.com!
flyover
New Member
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Come on, obesity is a problem. The FAA mandates all airlines use a generic weight for all bodies. If this goes up the airlines lose. If the airlines lose, you lose. The fact of the matter is people need to take responsibility for their own actions. If you can't say no to a that next potato chip, what makes you fit to make any decision?
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It's only a problem if I expect you to buy the potato chip. Come on skinny people, can't we all just get along?
Come on, obesity is a problem. The FAA mandates all airlines use a generic weight for all bodies. If this goes up the airlines lose. If the airlines lose, you lose. The fact of the matter is people need to take responsibility for their own actions. If you can't say no to a that next potato chip, what makes you fit to make any decision?
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It's only a problem if I expect you to buy the potato chip. Come on skinny people, can't we all just get along?
flyover
New Member
You are right on the money. But the problem is not the farmers nearly as much as Con Agra and ADM. These extremely powerful companies literally control the food supply in this country. They will be relunctant to switch from corn fructose, but if consumers demand it and the obesity/diabetes problem becomes a serious focus, it could happen.
Remember too that the pharmaceuticals and doctors aren't encouraging any big changes. They want people to believe that diabetes is a disease treated by their drugs instead of diet. So a lot of influential people want to make their money off us fat folks.
I was just trying to calculate how much extra fuel was burned over my career because of hauling the difference in my "ideal" weight and my actual weight. But my calculator was too small.
Remember too that the pharmaceuticals and doctors aren't encouraging any big changes. They want people to believe that diabetes is a disease treated by their drugs instead of diet. So a lot of influential people want to make their money off us fat folks.
I was just trying to calculate how much extra fuel was burned over my career because of hauling the difference in my "ideal" weight and my actual weight. But my calculator was too small.
Hootie
Old Skool
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The fact of the matter is people need to take responsibility for their own actions. If you can't say no to a that next potato chip, what makes you fit to make any decision?
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Very true Ophir. I heard something the other day (I think on that documentary on McDonanlds), like that when is it going to become socially acceptable to tell an obese person that they shouldn't have that piece of cake or to put down that bag of chips. Comparing it to smoking and how that has become over the years acceptable to show no sympathy for the person and to give them a lecture of "you shouldn't do that". People need to take responsibility for their decisions and choose wisely and get of their butt once in a while.
The fact of the matter is people need to take responsibility for their own actions. If you can't say no to a that next potato chip, what makes you fit to make any decision?
[/ QUOTE ]
Very true Ophir. I heard something the other day (I think on that documentary on McDonanlds), like that when is it going to become socially acceptable to tell an obese person that they shouldn't have that piece of cake or to put down that bag of chips. Comparing it to smoking and how that has become over the years acceptable to show no sympathy for the person and to give them a lecture of "you shouldn't do that". People need to take responsibility for their decisions and choose wisely and get of their butt once in a while.
Ophir
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The fact of the matter is people need to take responsibility for their own actions. If you can't say no to a that next potato chip, what makes you fit to make any decision?
[/ QUOTE ]
Very true Ophir. I heard something the other day (I think on that documentary on McDonanlds), like that when is it going to become socially acceptable to tell an obese person that they shouldn't have that piece of cake or to put down that bag of chips. Comparing it to smoking and how that has become over the years acceptable to show no sympathy for the person and to give them a lecture of "you shouldn't do that". People need to take responsibility for their decisions and choose wisely and get of their butt once in a while.
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All people with greater that 25% body fat need to stand at least 50 feet from any public entrance while eating.
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The fact of the matter is people need to take responsibility for their own actions. If you can't say no to a that next potato chip, what makes you fit to make any decision?
[/ QUOTE ]
Very true Ophir. I heard something the other day (I think on that documentary on McDonanlds), like that when is it going to become socially acceptable to tell an obese person that they shouldn't have that piece of cake or to put down that bag of chips. Comparing it to smoking and how that has become over the years acceptable to show no sympathy for the person and to give them a lecture of "you shouldn't do that". People need to take responsibility for their decisions and choose wisely and get of their butt once in a while.
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All people with greater that 25% body fat need to stand at least 50 feet from any public entrance while eating.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
Yes and no. Look, we've danced all around the topic but we've never come down to the bottom line.
It doesn't matter if it's from carbs, protein, or fat. All the focus on low fat, low carbs, low this, low that is missing the point.
If you take in less calories than you burn, you will lose weight. If you take in more calories than you burn, you will gain weight.
Now, when you're drinking the high fructose corn syrup that ADM produces in your super big gulp, how many calories is that? About 1,000? That's about half of the daily recommended caloric intake.
That's the problem. The high fructose corn syrup is part of the problem, but people consuming too much of it is the main problem.
It doesn't matter if it's from carbs, protein, or fat. All the focus on low fat, low carbs, low this, low that is missing the point.
If you take in less calories than you burn, you will lose weight. If you take in more calories than you burn, you will gain weight.
Now, when you're drinking the high fructose corn syrup that ADM produces in your super big gulp, how many calories is that? About 1,000? That's about half of the daily recommended caloric intake.
That's the problem. The high fructose corn syrup is part of the problem, but people consuming too much of it is the main problem.
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If you take in less calories than you burn, you will lose weight. If you take in more calories than you burn, you will gain weight.
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More getting to the brass-tacks.
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That's the problem. The high fructose corn syrup is part of the problem, but people consuming too much of it is the main problem.
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Every food is caloric or fattening in some way or another. The person's self control (or not) is the bottom line.
If you take in less calories than you burn, you will lose weight. If you take in more calories than you burn, you will gain weight.
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More getting to the brass-tacks.
[ QUOTE ]
That's the problem. The high fructose corn syrup is part of the problem, but people consuming too much of it is the main problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
Every food is caloric or fattening in some way or another. The person's self control (or not) is the bottom line.
flyover
New Member
Sorry but too simplistic.
The things that fructose does to your body, and the things that protein does to your body (or require of your organs) are not the same thing.
That's why I think the link between the diabetes epidemic and the fructose onslaught will be confirmed, and it's not just about how many calories of fructose you consume. The huge spike in diabetes and the transition to fructose are direct correlations.
The reason there hasn't been a general alarm is the above discussed special interests. As has been said food recommendations are all politics and almost no science.
So when you push the "it's just the number of calories, it's not what you eat" line you are in agreement with the major food processors who do not want you to look at fructose.
And BTW, of special interest to pilots, is the fact that every time Atkins style diets have been put against American Heart Association diets the Atkins diet reduces cholesterol and artery hardening more effectively. The AHA is fighting this like mad. But I think, like diabetes, heart disease will be found to be linked more to carbohydrate intake than fat intake. (I'm not a scientist but I have a reservation at a Holiday Inn Express).
So we may finally figure out why spaghetti eating, running pioneer Jim Fixx died of a massive heart attack. Of course, over the years since then, everytime a high-carbohydrate advocating exerciser has a heart attack it's blamed on genetics (so they've got that going for them, which is good).
We'll figure this diet thing out someday. Hopefully it will be found that beer and wings are the nectar of health.
The things that fructose does to your body, and the things that protein does to your body (or require of your organs) are not the same thing.
That's why I think the link between the diabetes epidemic and the fructose onslaught will be confirmed, and it's not just about how many calories of fructose you consume. The huge spike in diabetes and the transition to fructose are direct correlations.
The reason there hasn't been a general alarm is the above discussed special interests. As has been said food recommendations are all politics and almost no science.
So when you push the "it's just the number of calories, it's not what you eat" line you are in agreement with the major food processors who do not want you to look at fructose.
And BTW, of special interest to pilots, is the fact that every time Atkins style diets have been put against American Heart Association diets the Atkins diet reduces cholesterol and artery hardening more effectively. The AHA is fighting this like mad. But I think, like diabetes, heart disease will be found to be linked more to carbohydrate intake than fat intake. (I'm not a scientist but I have a reservation at a Holiday Inn Express).
So we may finally figure out why spaghetti eating, running pioneer Jim Fixx died of a massive heart attack. Of course, over the years since then, everytime a high-carbohydrate advocating exerciser has a heart attack it's blamed on genetics (so they've got that going for them, which is good).
We'll figure this diet thing out someday. Hopefully it will be found that beer and wings are the nectar of health.
Ophir
Well-Known Member
And consumer spending habits are where the focus can go too. If people don't like what ADM and Monsanto are doing then don't buy their goods. They will get the picture really quickly. But the problem is people's apathy; they don't care. They want the companies not provide them with a quick solution to their inability to restrain their eating habits. They don't want to read labels and find out what is good for you and what isn't. They don't want someone telling them that what they are doing in their life is distructive because it is their liberty to be self-destructive, that is until they become a burden on everyone else. They want the government to regulate bad food and drugs but they don't want bigger government. They want to take more money home in taxes and want the government out of their lives but bitch when corporations, how have the same mandate, take advantage of their insatisible appetites for self-destruction. Wake up and take charge of your life, it is the only true asset you will ever have.
adreamer
Well-Known Member
I am going to say something about this topic since I have study some of obesity issues. I agree with TonyW. I really do not care about what you eat. The bottom line is if you put in more than you burn, you will gain few extra pounds. Human body design is about the same as few thousand years ago. Therefore, your body burn energy intake in this order: Carb. Proteins, and Fat. All diets are manipulation of this system. For example, low carb diet, it basically takes out carb of your intake. In this case, your body have to burn protein, then fat.
First, what does extra pound mean? In this world, you will obey the law of physics wether you like it or not. It means it does cost more fuel to make takeoff. Try to think about 100 people average weight about 180 lbs vs. 100 people who average weigh about 250 lbs. That is a 7000 lbs difference. I believe airplane can achieve Vr a little quicker.
Second, if you have heart attack, knee replacement surgery, or high blood pressure because of your weight, how much money do you think overall the medical cost on you alone? I promise you will not pay all of it. I can give you a figure from my previous job experience. When you walk into E.R, before doc even look at you and not riding ambulance, that is a 50 ~ 80 dollars registration fee. X ray is about 100 dollars. What about open heart surgery? Who pick the rest of your bill?
My suggestion is to check and write down your diet. Go ahead, write down what you have for the next week. You will be surprised. For JCers, if my memory serve me correct, high blood pressure can ground you in a heart beat.
adreamer
First, what does extra pound mean? In this world, you will obey the law of physics wether you like it or not. It means it does cost more fuel to make takeoff. Try to think about 100 people average weight about 180 lbs vs. 100 people who average weigh about 250 lbs. That is a 7000 lbs difference. I believe airplane can achieve Vr a little quicker.
Second, if you have heart attack, knee replacement surgery, or high blood pressure because of your weight, how much money do you think overall the medical cost on you alone? I promise you will not pay all of it. I can give you a figure from my previous job experience. When you walk into E.R, before doc even look at you and not riding ambulance, that is a 50 ~ 80 dollars registration fee. X ray is about 100 dollars. What about open heart surgery? Who pick the rest of your bill?
My suggestion is to check and write down your diet. Go ahead, write down what you have for the next week. You will be surprised. For JCers, if my memory serve me correct, high blood pressure can ground you in a heart beat.
adreamer
PaulThomas
New Member
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Fuel burn increases by as much as 10% of what ever weight you add. Many variables, such as stage length, but it works out to between 6 and 10%. I use 10% as my rough gouge for adding weight, be it fuel or what ever.
What that means is that if you have 100 more pounds, you burn 10 pounds more fuel. If you have 200 pax that after 20 pounds more each, that means you've burned 400 more pounds of fuel. That's 60 gallons. And I bet that we're talking about more weight/person than 20 pounds, plus the extra stuff people carry with them....
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And then you have to add gas because you're carrying more gas which is weight...
Fuel burn increases by as much as 10% of what ever weight you add. Many variables, such as stage length, but it works out to between 6 and 10%. I use 10% as my rough gouge for adding weight, be it fuel or what ever.
What that means is that if you have 100 more pounds, you burn 10 pounds more fuel. If you have 200 pax that after 20 pounds more each, that means you've burned 400 more pounds of fuel. That's 60 gallons. And I bet that we're talking about more weight/person than 20 pounds, plus the extra stuff people carry with them....
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And then you have to add gas because you're carrying more gas which is weight...
Sprint100
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
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The federal government has declared war on fat people.
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You mean like the war on drugs, the war on poverty, or the war on terra?
We've seen how effective those are.
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Didn't you catch the headlines? Fat people are now a part of the axis of evil!
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The federal government has declared war on fat people.
[/ QUOTE ]
You mean like the war on drugs, the war on poverty, or the war on terra?
We've seen how effective those are.
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Didn't you catch the headlines? Fat people are now a part of the axis of evil!
G
Guest
Guest
Nevermind, TheWife said it (be charged by the pound)
tonyw
Well-Known Member
They just did a piece on this on CNBC. They had a guy I know pretty well representing the airlines' prespective and some woman who works for the National Association for Fat Acceptance or some wacko group like that.
The guy I know had a great line -- when you're trying to fight gravity, weight is not your friend.
The guy I know had a great line -- when you're trying to fight gravity, weight is not your friend.
I was watching "The View" as I was shaving this morning and Star Jones, ("I'm Star and I'm a LO'yuh") thought it was some conspiracy to raise ticket prices.
This is a rough paraphrase but she said something to the extent of "We already pay too much to fly. Now they want to use this as an excuse to get mo [sic] money out of us. What's an average plan carry, 400 people? Well, if we're all ten pounds heavier, you can't tell me it takes mo [sic] gas to fly an extra 40,000 lbs. It's just sick".
Not only is she not a math whiz, she perhaps has no concept that an extra 4,000 lbs is equivalent to an extra 25 people by using the FAA's current (old?) average pax weight.
Math and science in public. Recipe for disaster!
This is a rough paraphrase but she said something to the extent of "We already pay too much to fly. Now they want to use this as an excuse to get mo [sic] money out of us. What's an average plan carry, 400 people? Well, if we're all ten pounds heavier, you can't tell me it takes mo [sic] gas to fly an extra 40,000 lbs. It's just sick".
Not only is she not a math whiz, she perhaps has no concept that an extra 4,000 lbs is equivalent to an extra 25 people by using the FAA's current (old?) average pax weight.
Math and science in public. Recipe for disaster!
