Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
AFAIK, the landing problems are exclusive to the -11. Or uh maybe were.
FedEx MD11 booboo in FLL?
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Mike Wise
#NewSchool
Hahaha I remember when top 4's were cool and you could edit your HTML code on your "profile". Boy those were the good days. I can't keep up nowadays with these snapfaces and twitergrams. FB is still relatively easy thankfully.
thevideographer
Well-Known Member
Devil's advocate: they all got out, and saved their bags, so...
A300Capt
Freight Dawg
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
The same could be said for the Emirates crash landing at Dubai. Just because everyone got out and saved their bags, doesn't mean it wasn't an extremely risky and careless error and misjudgement on their part. This is like playing Russian roulette with the gun one night for 30 minutes and at the end of which saying "hey, I didn't blow my head right off, so...."
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
i hate people
I think I read somewhere that the crew + Jumpseats were limited to going down the rope at the CAs window, so whoever was in the back was tossing out stuff while waiting their turns.
When I get to my computer I'll have to see if I can dig up that post somewhere......
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L1 was open, but the deployed slide had been accidentally released from the floor, and was laying on the ground, making jumping out the L1 about a 15+ foot fall. R1 was unusable due to fire/smoke, so the cockpit windows were all that was available.
Risky move with that much smoke, hanging back by the L1 and taking time to locate, unsecure, and toss out Christmas presents and flight bags. Would be a lousy reason for someone to go down in the process, be unable to egress, and now ARFF has to go in after them, placing more risk on creating a rescue situation that didn't have to be one.
Then again, all kinds of screwups in that accident. Including ATC holding back/delaying ARFF trucks unnecessarily in crossing a runway to the scene. A good couple minutes delay.
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🦈💜
Well-Known Member
I don't know how many people were on that flight, but a FedEx MD can have 6-8 people onboard (2 crew, 2 JS on the flight deck, 2-4 JS in the aft compartment. The crew bags are usually stored in a cargo net attached to the aft bulkhead in that aft compartment, about 3-4 feet from the L1 door.
If guys are limited to egressing from the cockpit windows, there's literally not enough space for everyone to fit on the flight deck while one at a time are going down that rope.
It's not hard to imagine a few guys being stuck in the aft area, unable to fit in the flight deck, throwing out bags because there's literally nothing else they can do at the moment.
tl;dr Don't immediately jump to the conclusion that they're being cheap and stupid, because the reality could be a lot different.
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Was 7 on that flight, but depending on configuration and cargo, could be 20+, with even people in the cargo area.
The problem is, it takes some effort to toss out bags....finding them, unsecuring them, etc. That's all stuff that takes you away from the door where there's breathable air, prior to heading to the cockpit directly to egress, or even jumping out the L1 if its bad enough. In the video, you can see a delay between people exiting out the cockpit, and in that delay time, bags are being tossed out. That's time when the priority seems to be bags instead of people. There was a 65 second delay between the second person to egress, and the third person to egress......in that 65 seconds, bags are being tossed out instead of people coming out.
Smoke/fumes is nothing to screw around with, especially with possible HAZMAT cargo, and even moreso with no breathing apparatus being worn. So in that situation, doing work that's completely unnecessary, instead of attempting to stay as clear of the smoke as possible by an open door while waiting, is completely pointless and cannot be justified.
Too, ARFF had no idea how many were onboard at the time, as they hadn't gotten that info by the time they arrived on scene. Had someone gone down in the smoke/fumes, not only would they be difficult to find, but now effort has to be taken to go offensive (as opposed to a full defensive fight) by the ARFF crew and enter the aircraft, when the reason for having to now perform a rescue is due to having spent time tossing bags and Christmas presents? When otherwise one wouldn't have been needed? Now also, effort is being taken to rescue, and taken away from firefighting. The initial responding units only had about 4 firefighters, totaling to about 6-7 firefighters when the delayed ARFF vehicles finally arrived, and entry for rescue is a minimum 2-man job.
There's a reason both the NTSB was highly critical of this action during egress, as well as the company after the fact. Because tl;dr...the juice was in no way worth the squeeze regarding unnecessary work even while waiting to egress. Cheap or stupid......one or the other, or both, is definitely a fitting criticism..
Finding 15:
Most of the FedEx pilots on board the accident airplane showed poor judgment and exposed themselves to unnecessary risk when they delayed their evacuation from a burning airplane to salvage personal items.
On a positive note, 647s accident was the first ever operational use of a Snozzle boom fire equipment in a real aircraft accident. Worked great. Ironically, it was on one of the ARFF trucks that was delayed by ATC.
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ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
My tin foil hat theory says the giant dip/ canyon in the TDZ of 10L had something to do with it. It's quite violent on TO and landing if you catch it right.
GypsyPilot
Mohawk Town
Interesting. Didn't they recently resurface that runway? Where your experiences after the new construction?
Nark
Macho Superpilot
I'd say MSY's "dip" is much worse. However good point. Probably not forgiving if the stars align.
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
Yes, 2 weeks ago. It's really bad. I could see it maybe if someone plowed it in just hard enough, and with the correct cross wind correction. I saw it was gusty out of the NE today down there... I dunno, I just immediately thought of that when I heard. Even if it had nothing to do with it, it needs to be fixed.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Back in my day, when we did something cool we didn't tell anyone about it until Monday - when we went back to school!
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Bob Ridpath
Pit Bull love
There isn't a goddamned bag or Christmas present in the world potentially worth the risk of twenty or thirty or forty years of human life. Not a single one, whatever its' price.
We criticize passengers for going down slides with their carry-ons - correctly, despite the fact it almost always turns out OK.
If you (plural) don't know it, there is a single correct action in a life-threatening situation - particularly fire: get the hell away from it, if at all possible, in the most expeditious way possible, and don't worry about anything else - except other human life (if you can make a difference to them).
A SINGLE breath, given high enough concentration of CO and other gases, can cause incapacitation and unconsciousness leading to death in an enclosed environment ... one single breath.
That things turned-out OK this time doesn't make it a safe or smart practice for the next.
Zapphod Beblebrox
Inventor of the Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster
I have nothing of substance to add to the discussion except that I am in FLL. Landed last night about 10:30. Lots of emergency vehicles on 10R. Runway closed. There was a strong East wind with gusts to 22kt. The DC-10 /MD-11 seemed to be pointed East and far down the runway. The aircraft is facing North / Northeast and appears to be between Taxiways A4 and A5.
Zapphod Beblebrox
Inventor of the Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster
Update from Neil Roghair, former V.P. of APA - apparently this was a rejected takeoff after a catastrophic engine failure.
Kudos to these guys (and the entire crew) for handling a situation that we train our entire careers for but hope never happens. Glad everyone got out okay during a very serious fire after what appears to be a catastrophic engine failure followed by an aborted take-off at high speed..
Fortunately, events like this are EXTREMELY rare. Great job guys!
Kudos to these guys (and the entire crew) for handling a situation that we train our entire careers for but hope never happens. Glad everyone got out okay during a very serious fire after what appears to be a catastrophic engine failure followed by an aborted take-off at high speed..
Fortunately, events like this are EXTREMELY rare. Great job guys!
