FBO vs. Academy

TechFlyer

TechFlyer

Well-Known Member
I've read the threads and the common concensus is that airlines don't care where you got your ratings. However, looking at all of the acadmey's and how many of their graduates have been hired by airlines, it is difficult to comprehend that an airline pilot could come out of a small FBO. It seems like you have a much better chance of getting on with a regional if you go to a place like ATP, even if the quality of training at the FBO is better.

I have pretty much decided to go through ATP's 90 day program. However, I love the FBO in my hometown and could save a ton of money by doing all of my training there. If I thought I had the same chance of getting hired at the FBO as ATP, I would stay there in a heart beat.

Can someone please tell me that I'm completely wrong about the FBO's and that regionals DO HIRE pilots from FBO's? I'm sure there are some regional pilots out there who have taken this route and will tell me that it can be done. But am I limiting my possibilities by training at the FBO?

Thanks everyone
 
Here is what the Airlines will initially require

Approximates here.

1000 hours Total Time

100 Hours Multi Engine Pilot in Command

Pass an interview process and a Simulator Evaluation.

Of course proper ratings, Like Commercial Multi Engine, maybe the ATP written Test completed.

Thats pretty much it.

You will not find anything about where you trained, any added stuff like type ratings, glass panel training or other things that get offered.

That being said. You have to decide what is best for you. I prefer the FBO route, and I am happy with that process. That may not work for you though, its a matter of preference. I only suggest that you dig and research before making a decision.
 
Either route can work BUT..... take the fact that your FBO is in your "home town" out of the equation and find out about their program, syllabus, pass rate (check with FSDO), and aircraft MX including down time.

How many aircraft do they have?
What types?
What kind of avionics are in the panels?
What is the experience of their instructors?
Are there ground schools or is it one on one? (one on one can be very bad if your instructor is a "time builder" and not an "instructor"...... Could be great too)

There are all sorts of things to consider. With my experience I have found that "MOST" FBO's are run by "mom and pop" types or someone who bought it for a fun hobby. This usually means the quality of training is sacrificed...

Good luck,

ILS
 
CLR4ILS said:
Either route can work BUT..... take the fact that your FBO is in your "home town" out of the equation and find out about their program, syllabus, pass rate (check with FSDO), and aircraft MX including down time.

How many aircraft do they have?
What types?
What kind of avionics are in the panels?
What is the experience of their instructors?
Are there ground schools or is it one on one? (one on one can be very bad if your instructor is a "time builder" and not an "instructor"...... Could be great too)

There are all sorts of things to consider. With my experience I have found that "MOST" FBO's are run by "mom and pop" types or someone who bought it for a fun hobby. This usually means the quality of training is sacrificed...

Good luck,

ILS
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What kind of aircraft? As long as you can get Twin Time, it shouldn't matter as long as they are safe and maintained.

What kind of avionics? Doesn't make that big of a difference, provided they are IFR certified and adequate to complete your training. Don't get all caught up in the fancy GPS and Glass Panel Stuff. Funny thing about technology, at some point it will break and you need to know how to handle things without it.

Experience of Instroctor. This is important, also they should be passionate, able to teach, have the right personallity for YOU.

Ground School? You are going to self study more than anything, good one on one instruction will trump a ground school any day. This again though goes to the instructor quality.

The quality of the instructor is most important of all. While CLR4ILS may be correct on saying that FBO quality may belacking, it is equally likely that you will get a brand new CFI looking to build time at a large school as well.

Quality of Instructor is the number one priority I think. The rest is just how much do you want to pay for gadgetry and newer aircraft. Flying and old Cessna 150 doesn't make you any less of a Pilot than a guy training in a New Cirrus.
 
"it is difficult to comprehend that an airline pilot could come out of a small FBO"

It's about ratings and experience. ATP has the advantage of training is twins but if you can get the multi time somehow at a small FBO, it's just as well. The reason you associate "academy" with "airline job" is cause that's what the websites and marketing guru's what you to think. Little FBO's don't bother with that.

I'd be willing to bet if you took DCA, FSA, ATP, and Pan Am's placement for any period of time and compare it to guys who work their way up at smaller FBO's, the smaller FBO's would win hands down cause there are so many more of them. You just don't hear about it.

"I'm sure there are some regional pilots out there who have taken this route and will tell me that it can be done"

I could count out 25 or 30 people I know who have worked their way up into professional pilot jobs over the years. Only one went to an academy.
 
DE727UPS said:
"it is difficult to comprehend that an airline pilot could come out of a small FBO"

It's about ratings and experience. ATP has the advantage of training is twins but if you can get the multi time somehow at a small FBO, it's just as well. The reason you associate "academy" with "airline job" is cause that's what the websites and marketing guru's what you to think. Little FBO's don't bother with that.

I'd be willing to bet if you took DCA, FSA, ATP, and Pan Am's placement for any period of time and compare it to guys who work their way up at smaller FBO's, the smaller FBO's would win hands down cause there are so many more of them. You just don't hear about it.

"I'm sure there are some regional pilots out there who have taken this route and will tell me that it can be done"

I could count out 25 or 30 people I know who have worked their way up into professional pilot jobs over the years. Only one went to an academy.
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On the same token, I can count easily 25 or 30 guys/gals who worked (yup just as hard as FBO guys/gals) who went to academies/flight universities, and the one from the FBO background washed out of training at his first regional, and had easily double the flight time as the rest of the folks from the "darkside".
 
Dugie8 said:
On the same token, I can count easily 25 or 30 guys/gals who worked (yup just as hard as FBO guys/gals) who went to academies/flight universities, and the one from the FBO background washed out of training at his first regional, and had easily double the flight time as the rest of the folks from the "darkside".
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Unfortunately, the FBO guy/gal washing out of indoc is more common than most think. I am not saying that just because a school has the word "academy" in it that is is better. However, with my personal experience training and flying out of several small FBO's and training at FSA, the academy had 100 times better training than the FBO's.

In fact, the training practices at the FBO's were down right unsafe....

To each their own I guess.....

ILS
 
CLR4ILS said:
Unfortunately, the FBO guy/gal washing out of indoc is more common than most think. I am not saying that just because a school has the word "academy" in it that is is better. However, with my personal experience training and flying out of several small FBO's and training at FSA, the academy had 100 times better training than the FBO's.

In fact, the training practices at the FBO's were down right unsafe....

To each their own I guess.....

ILS
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I don't know if I would go that far, and that wasn't the point of my post. Training, I believe, lies 80% on the students shoulders and the rest on the instructor and facility. Flying isn't hard to do or teach, it takes discipline and motivation to do it safely and efficiently. I'm sure almost everyone can give examples of bad acadamies and good FBOs or the other way around. It is all up to the individual being trained to make the most of the training or move to better training if current options are not living up to standards.
 
Thanks everybody for your input. I really appreciate it.

The FBO I'm considering is a pretty legit operation. They have between 15 and 20 planes ranging from 172's to Diamonds to Seminoles. The local community college began this year offering an associates degree in aviation with all flight training conducted at this FBO. This does me no good since I'm two terms away from my bachelors in business. But I think they run a solid operation. I think they have 3 full time instructors and 3 or 4 part time. Every time I go there I come out feeling that they were very professional, knowledgable and friendly.

Part of me says just do my training here and take a chance. But then logic steps in and says look at how many ATP graduates are with regionals right now. I'm having an awful experience with the flight school I'm currently at (college) and I think I'm going to finish my private at the FBO I've been talking about. I should be able to make a more informed decision after doing this.

Thanks again everyone.
 
"But then logic steps in and says look at how many ATP graduates are with regionals right now"

"The FBO I'm considering is a pretty legit operation"

Has anyone who instructed at this FBO ever gone on to the regionals?
 
DE727UPS said:
"But then logic steps in and says look at how many ATP graduates are with regionals right now"

"The FBO I'm considering is a pretty legit operation"

Has anyone who instructed at this FBO ever gone on to the regionals?
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Whats the difference? Jeez

Can the instructor make a good Pilot out of you. That is the question.

Read some Gouges and buy a couple hours of sim time when the time comes if the regionals are your goal. I would be far less concerned with how many people went on to regionals as I would about the quality of instruction and instructor.

Just one mans opinion.
 
My point is simply this...

The poster seems to think he's somehow at a disadvantage by going to "a pretty legit" FBO type flight school. He thinks this because he reads the big academy marketing designed to suck you into their school as THE way to go. Thus, this statement:

"It seems like you have a much better chance of getting on with a regional if you go to a place like ATP, even if the quality of training at the FBO is better"

ATP is certainly an effective way to become a regional pilot. It's just wrong to buy off on the notion that FBO guys don't get hired, which I know to be completely false based on personal experience. The poster seems worried about this, even after reading so many comments at JC to the contrary.

"Can someone please tell me that I'm completely wrong about the FBO's and that regionals DO HIRE pilots from FBO's"

Yeah, you're completely wrong.

Tech Flyer: I just noticed your from my area. Wondering where your avtar is from and what flight schools you've been going to.

CLR4ILS: How's that airline career coming along these days? Still waiting?
 
DE727UPS said:
My point is simply this...

The poster seems to think he's somehow at a disadvantage by going to "a pretty legit" FBO type flight school. He thinks this because he reads the big academy marketing designed to suck you into their school as THE way to go. Thus, this statement:

"It seems like you have a much better chance of getting on with a regional if you go to a place like ATP, even if the quality of training at the FBO is better"

ATP is certainly an effective way to become a regional pilot. It's just wrong to buy off on the notion that FBO guys don't get hired, which I know to be completely false based on personal experience. The poster seems worried about this, even after reading so many comments at JC to the contrary.

"Can someone please tell me that I'm completely wrong about the FBO's and that regionals DO HIRE pilots from FBO's"

Yeah, you're completely wrong.

Tech Flyer: I just noticed your from my area. Wondering where your avtar is from and what flight schools you've been going to.

CLR4ILS: How's that airline career coming along these days? Still waiting?
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I follow you. I was trying to drive the point home that its not REQUIRED that you go to an academy. While this is a proven route, it also is not best for everybody. I do not see any disadvantages to going to an FBO and getting your training provided they have the right equipment and instructors to do the job. There are plenty of FBO's I wouldn' t trust with my training, but there are plenty that are excellent as well.
 
"Yeah, you're completely wrong."

Haha, thank you DE727. That's exactly what I was looking for.

DesertDog: I understand what you're saying, and that is my concern. With the FBO's, some are great and some are not so great. You don't always know what you're going to get. Wow, you can all call me Forest now. With ATP you know exactly what you're getting and that you are going through a program that has been tried and tested hundreds of times with success (success being the right seat at a regional). It's the "unknown" factor that makes me a little hesitant about the FBO route. There is no website that says how many FBO graduates have been hired by which airline, where they instructed, how long it took and what they paid.

As for the marketing schemes at the academies...we all know that they can be very inviting to someone who hasn't done their research. I am trying my hardest to ignore those claims because I know they are very deceptive. I am so thankful that I found Jetcareers because I was seriously going to enroll in one of the larger flight academies (I'll leave the name out of this) and fork out $100 grand. I thought that was the only way to go. Thanks Doug!

I see that I could probably afford to go through ATP's 90 day and that I could probably get hired by them to instruct and then I could get hired by a regional and be 50 grand in the hole. However, I see that I can get the same ratings and training for quite a bit less than ATP's program at my FBO. Sure I wouldn't have the same amount of ME time but I shouldn't have too much trouble getting to that coveted number of 100.

So that's where I'm at. Do I follow in the footsteps of Robert Frost and take the road less traveled (or at least less marketed)? Or do I go the other way, which has fewer unknowns?
 
You might want to do a little of both.

I usually don't recommend small schools for the CFI ratings. You need to find a school and CFI that does a lot of CFI training to efficiently get through it. ATP or a big academy is fine for that. I've known two guys who did it through Sheble's who were happy with it.

As far as multi time or time building. Some smaller FBO's don't even have a twin or if they do, it's more expensive than some of the larger academies that fly twins a lot.

Outside of that, I think you'd be better off staying local and saving your money.
 
DE727UPS said:
CLR4ILS: How's that airline career coming along these days? Still waiting?
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Glad you asked, didn't know you cared but still glad you asked..... I think I might have to come back and join you good people. I have been made a great offer that I cannot refuse. Time to kick off a little rust and take to the friendly skies once again.

ILS
 
Dugie8 said:
I don't know if I would go that far, and that wasn't the point of my post. Training, I believe, lies 80% on the students shoulders and the rest on the instructor and facility. Flying isn't hard to do or teach, it takes discipline and motivation to do it safely and efficiently. I'm sure almost everyone can give examples of bad acadamies and good FBOs or the other way around. It is all up to the individual being trained to make the most of the training or move to better training if current options are not living up to standards.
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How much training do you have behind you now? Student pilots need guidance from a good instructor coupled with a solid well structured program. 20% coming from the program, instructor and facility is way off.

I will agree that the student is the only one responsible for how well they actually do in their training but without the proper guidance, programs, and facilities and aircraft, they will crash and burn in their training.

ILS
 
CLR4ILS said:
How much training do you have behind you now? Student pilots need guidance from a good instructor coupled with a solid well structured program. 20% coming from the program, instructor and facility is way off.

I will agree that the student is the only one responsible for how well they actually do in their training but without the proper guidance, programs, and facilities and aircraft, they will crash and burn in their training.

ILS
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I've got plenty of training behind me, and plenty of training done by me. 20% is just right.
 
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