Fate Poll....

wheelsup said:
The stock market is the ultimate ponzi scheme and don't forget the years in which you were investing were the highest returning years in history. To think that the rest of us will be able to count on 15% returns per year is hogwash. Basically what I'm saying is it was luck that you were able to get the returns and the retirement you have today and have the bulk of your balance invested when the market tripled in 5 years - for folks like me my return is negative or maybe 0% since investing in the last decade.

Glad it worked out for you but as they say "past performance is no guarantee of future results".
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Hardly a Ponzi scheme. If you lost money over a 10 year period then you invested very poorly. I did not have a great deal of money to invest at first- but I put in a little over time and used the power of dollar cost averaging.
Just an example...
Say you had $10 extra a month at the begining of the Great Depression. You would imagine this is the worst time to invest as the market will lose something like 45% in the 1930s. However, if you invested that $10 for the next decade you would actually have a positive rate of return of about 5% if you invested in an index fund (okay, they did not have them back then). Not great, but not a negative return.
I've done the same. I invest a little every month no matter if the market is up or down. I push all my interest and dividends back into the market so when prices are low I get more shares at a discount.
Of course you can just piss and moan instead and complain how unfair the world is.
 
JustinA said:
ALERT.

Thread Hijacked.

:bandit:
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Not really. The OP did list UE as one of his poll options rather than actually working. I pointed out how this was an anathema to me and a sign of one of the problems in the country, that people have come to view UE as an entitlement, not something to be used by those who are desperate and have no other options. A great number of members objected to this and stated... that they were entitled to UE.:dunno:
 
Who poo'd in blackhawk's Frosted Flakes? Gracious...


Seriously though, back to the question at hand. I'm a year out of college and rockin' quite a pile of smelly school bills, no work for a CMEL/CSEL/INS with under 500 TT. I'm washing dishes at a restaurant, applying to PUBNATS and trying to get into the AF.

Well, I got passed over for PUBNAT 7, and I will probably get passed for PUBNAT 8. **Just FYI: I thought it might be a good idea to try for Air Force OTS and UPT, but I just found out that they canceled both rated/non-rated boards for OTS this year. The next OTS board is March 2011. And if you/me are accepted, it is almost a two year wait for an OTS class date. It's a sad day when the AF is pacing itself with the FAA.
 
Ginger said:
Who poo'd in blackhawk's Frosted Flakes? Gracious...


Seriously though, back to the question at hand. I'm a year out of college and rockin' quite a pile of smelly school bills, no work for a CMEL/CSEL/INS with under 500 TT. I'm washing dishes at a restaurant, applying to PUBNATS and trying to get into the AF.

Well, I got passed over for PUBNAT 7, and I will probably get passed for PUBNAT 8. **Just FYI: I thought it might be a good idea to try for Air Force OTS and UPT, but I just found out that they canceled both rated/non-rated boards for OTS this year. The next OTS board is March 2011. And if you/me are accepted, it is almost a two year wait for an OTS class date. It's a sad day when the AF is pacing itself with the FAA.
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People who view UE as entitlement rather than a last resort.
Have you looked at other services? I know the Army is very short pilots and last I heard was pushing to train 1400 a year through 2012.
 
In advance, apologies to the JC Community if this is a continuation of a hijack but I couldn't let this one go.

Blackhawk said:
... that they were entitled to UE.:dunno:
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In fact, anyone who collects "UE" is collecting on a benefit from their Unemployment Insurance. Analogously, if you pay your house insurance premiums and a fire destroys your house are you not entitled to collect a benefit? Of course you are. The key word in the debate seems to be "entitled". I think that you are incorrect.

I do appreciate your stance on not tapping into a social program if you can get by based on your balanced portfolio of investments, but that is a whole different kettle of fish. Congratulations on having a broad financial support base. You are indeed fortunate.
 
CDNPilotDave said:
In advance, apologies to the JC Community if this is a continuation of a hijack but I couldn't let this one go.



In fact, anyone who collects "UE" is collecting on a benefit from their Unemployment Insurance. Analogously, if you pay your house insurance premiums and a fire destroys your house are you not entitled to collect a benefit? Of course you are. The key word in the debate seems to be "entitled". I think that you are incorrect.

I do appreciate your stance on not tapping into a social program if you can get by based on your balanced portfolio of investments, but that is a whole different kettle of fish. Congratulations on having a broad financial support base. You are indeed fortunate.
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Faulty analogy. If your financial house is burning down- by all means take unemployment. But you don't total a house if it can be fixed. If there are realistic work options other than UE you should be taking them rather than living on the dole and the OP listed work options AND UE. About 30% of the respondents voted for UE over work... so, no, it's not a hijack of the thread since the OP opened the can of worms with his survey. If every person who lost their job maxed out their UE (after all, it's insurance they are entitlted to), the system would collapse (and is in the process of doing so). This is why every time congress waves their wand extending UE it causes massive problems as the fairy dust funding UE comes... from somewhere.
Also, YOU pay house insurance. Someone else pays for UE. It is not a fund that a worker puts into for a rainy day to be tapped into; it's a tax on employers that others get to draw on. As others have written, "it comes from the state"... it comes from fairy dust.
 
minitour said:
No. He's right.

He doesn't know what he's talking about, but he's right.:rolleyes:

-mini
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From the guy who wrote that I was wrong, employers don't pay UE the "states" do... of course they get the money from employers... and employers don't have a choice but to pay into the system... but the state pays it.
 
Blackhawk said:
If every person who lost their job maxed out their UE (after all, it's insurance they are entitlted to), the system would collapse.
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Do you have a source for this, or is this also more bad information that you drum up based on how you feel about it?

-mini
 
minitour said:
Do you have a source for this, or is this also more bad information that you drum up based on how you feel about it?

-mini
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Yeah. I spent several months in Spain in the 1990s where UE ran was up to the 25% mark greatly due to their UE rules. Look at what has happened in countries with generous UE benefits.
So you REALLY think that if everyone maxed out their UE the system would just put along fine???? Man, I've got a bridge to sell you.
 
Well Mike, we tried...


Blackhawk,
Yes, I am working on putting a package together for the Army Aviator WO program


...while I collect.......


UNEMPLOYMENT!!!


BRUUU-HAAA-HAAAAA
 
I don't think the poll was a choice between "work" and "collect UE". I think we all rather work, but even a qualified individual is going to have a hard time finding a pilot job. I'm in the same pickle as KA - they don't just give these jobs out even if you have the time right now. For some of us, we don't have any other skills so finding a non flying job is next to impossible. I'm lucky that I did car upholstery for years, and I can go back and make more than a junior regional captain doing that at my old shop.

I think Blackhawk is showing the ultimate "pulling up the ladder on the way up" attitude that is so prevalent in the senior elements of this profession.

Do you think your IRA plan is free of government money? How about the trillions injected into Wall Street by the fed and treasury to keep the bubble going? Nope, no federal dollars at all on Wall Street.. Especially not TARP, or the Auto Bailouts either..
 
500b said:
I don't think the poll was a choice between "work" and "collect UE". I think we all rather work, but even a qualified individual is going to have a hard time finding a pilot job. I'm in the same pickle as KA - they don't just give these jobs out even if you have the time right now. For some of us, we don't have any other skills so finding a non flying job is next to impossible. I'm lucky that I did car upholstery for years, and I can go back and make more than a junior regional captain doing that at my old shop.

I think Blackhawk is showing the ultimate "pulling up the ladder on the way up" attitude that is so prevalent in the senior elements of this profession.

Do you think your IRA plan is free of government money? How about the trillions injected into Wall Street by the fed and treasury to keep the bubble going? Nope, no federal dollars at all on Wall Street.. Especially not TARP, or the Auto Bailouts either..
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1. I never said people should never draw unemployment and I challenge anyone to show where I wrote that.
2. Actually, the OP did list UE as a choice instead of working. "What to in case of furlough?" It was not a "should I do this while I also look for a job", it was an either or question. So 30% selected working over getting a job.
3. I don't invest in any companies that received TARP money and was adamantly against the TARP money. As for the auto makers, don't go there. The government turned the rule of law on its head and hosed bond holders- those who are normally first in line during bankruptcy. Anyone who invested in GM/Chrysler in any way got hosed- so your "evil Wallstreet" crap is just that.
3. Pulling up the ladder??? Are you KIDDING ME??? I never asked for money from anyone that was not in exchange for goods or services provided. My investments are not for my "unemployment" but to provide for my future. I put off things to save that money. My wife and I did not get matching Harleys- I invested in Harley. We did not buy a boat or jet skis. We purchased modest homes and when we saw the market bubble we decided against purchasing a home and rented.
I'm willing to show you how much I give to charity- how much do you give?
 
Blackhawk said:
It's called insurance so people feel better about it. If you call the tail on a dog a leg a dog still has four legs.
Do you put any money into UE??? Your company does... but they are forced to.
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It's called insurance because it IS insurance. It's Social Insurance. Do the research. The law of large numbers/adverse selection is the basis for the program. (Please don't misinterpret this. I am in no way arguing the fiscal soundness of "UE") Just like Social Security. It is what it is. If premiums (ie Unemployment Taxes on employers) are paid, then the insured is entitled to benefits.

Start a new thread about the irresponsibility of social program dependents sucking the system dry, or the morality of taking more than what one really needs, and I'm totally behind that. However, the original posting had to do with an unemployed pilot discussing their financial options.

Their premiums were paid.

They are entitled.
 
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