fatal KTUS crash

Friction locks.

My first take off in a king air after getting my type rating the left engine rolled back at v1. I pushed it up and it rolled back again. Couldn't understand why.

Later on landing I called my king air buddy and he said..."oh yea sounds like the frictions happens to everyone once"

I looked in all my training material, POH and etc and never once saw a mention of a springs but I did find a picture in a MX schematic of a spring in the assembly.

I just got out of another name brand simulator school and not once did they mention the throttle springs, again not in any material but the instructor said he had heard of that happening and apparently its the main theory behind the FlightSafety ICT crash that killed the guys in the sim when the king air fell from the sky on them after take off.

As far as I'm concerned this is a horrible design in the airplane.

Let's say at V1 the left throttle rolls back because the friction lock was not set. A split second later the left engine fails. Well because the throttle was back it disarmed the auto feather automatically so now you're REALLY flighting the airplane. You get slow with all that drag out, panic, and shove the remaining throttle to the firewall and now suddenly you get 150% torque on the good engine but its too much for the rudder and over you go.

This marks the forth king air crash to the left after take off in the last few years. I damn near witnessed the one that happened in LGB killing almost everyone.

Again, no one teaches this, not the name brand 20k schools, not any in house or smaller schools, its not in any book, and most pilots I know had NO IDEA this was a thing.

More here
https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=78219&hilit=Friction+locks
 
Last edited:
T/O w/FSII said:
Again, no one teaches this, not the name brand 20k schools, not any in house or smaller schools, its not in any book, and most pilots I know had NO IDEA this was a thing.
Click to expand...

Good point. There are a lot of "gotchas" in every profession, ever, that aren't taught.

This accident may have been something else completely, who knows.
 
T/O w/FSII said:
Friction locks.

My first take off in a king air after getting my type rating the left engine rolled back at v1. I pushed it up and it rolled back again. Couldn't understand why.

Later on landing I called my king air buddy and he said..."oh yea sounds like the frictions happens to everyone once"

I looked in all my training material, POH and etc and never once saw a mention of a springs but I did find a picture in a MX schematic of a spring in the assembly.

I just got out of another name brand simulator school and not once did they mention the throttle springs, again not in any material but the instructor said he had heard of that happening and apparently its the main theory behind the FlightSafety ICT crash that killed the guys in the sim when the king air fell from the sky on them after take off.

As far as I'm concerned this is a horrible design in the airplane.

Let's say at V1 the left throttle rolls back because the friction lock was not set. A split second later the left engine fails. Well because the throttle was back it disarmed the auto feather automatically so now you're REALLY flighting the airplane. You get slow with all that drag out, panic, and shove the remaining throttle to the firewall and now suddenly you get 150% torque on the good engine but its too much for the rudder and over you go.

This marks the forth king air crash to the left after take off in the last few years. I damn near witnessed the one that happened in LGB killing almost everyone.

Again, no one teaches this, not the name brand 20k schools, not any in house or smaller schools, its not in any book, and most pilots I know had NO IDEA this was a thing.

More here
https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=78219&hilit=Friction+locks
Click to expand...

Fascinating.

This accident in the UK appears to be caused by exactly what you describe here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5422ebafe5274a13170000a7/dft_avsafety_pdf_022814.pdf
 
RDoug said:
NTSB prelim: NTSB releases report on Tucson International Airport crash
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As bad and tragic as this accident was in its own right, it had high potential to have been so much worse, had just even timing been earlier. Had the event happens a few seconds earlier, good chance the King Air may have ended up in the terminal or an aircraft parked at the jetway. And where it did impact, not too long earlier, there had been an airliner pushed back to there and getting ready to taxi out from the terminal.
 
I've had a snap-back twice over the years, once in an E90 and the other in a B200. It's right at that point where you remove your hand from the power levers to the gear handle.

Just like in a light twin, push the power up FIRST. If this is the problem, you'll catch it.

We now fly 2 pilots and the right seater guards the power levers (at the base of the levers) with 2 fingers to prevent this, but they don't do it until rotation speed when the PF moves the right hand from the PL to the yoke. If the PF aborts prior to that, the PM will probably have broken fingers. I think Clements wrote about this, but the problem with the friction system is irregular pressure at different positions along the length of travel. You can have snug tension at the idle position when it's checked IAW the checklist, but it can be different at the other end.
 
deadstick said:
I've had a snap-back twice over the years, once in an E90 and the other in a B200. It's right at that point where you remove your hand from the power levers to the gear handle.

Just like in a light twin, push the power up FIRST. If this is the problem, you'll catch it.

We now fly 2 pilots and the right seater guards the power levers (at the base of the levers) with 2 fingers to prevent this, but they don't do it until rotation speed when the PF moves the right hand from the PL to the yoke. If the PF aborts prior to that, the PM will probably have broken fingers. I think Clements wrote about this, but the problem with the friction system is irregular pressure at different positions along the length of travel. You can have snug tension at the idle position when it's checked IAW the checklist, but it can be different at the other end.
Click to expand...
I guess I have too much time in old piston aircraft, but that sounds like ops normal to me. Granted the 'Jo doesn't have springs on the throttle so maybe that's the difference.
 
I've seen people coming back to the KA from a jet who forget about it and just try to fly it without verifying the power levers or that the prop feathered, and others who have been told "it's a GO airplane and will fly away...and it has autofeather." Bad stuff right there. I could go on how the 200 is really bad with performance 1E and the false sense of security, but that's a whole different discussion.
 
I think the report came back on this one a while ago. Nothing was wrong with the aircraft. The PIC had a pharmacy’s worth of drugs in his system at the time, both legal and illegal. He apparently had no time in the King Air prior to the flight, the aircraft had just been purchased prior to the flight. He exceeded the max angle of attack on takeoff and stalled it into the ground. Both engines appeared to be making full power on impact. The drugs in his system may have altered his senses causing the accident. This is a bizarre one.
 
I thought this happened recently.............couldn't figure out why the people filming the crash from the terminal weren't wearing masks.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
I think the report came back on this one a while ago. Nothing was wrong with the aircraft. The PIC had a pharmacy’s worth of drugs in his system at the time, both legal and illegal. He apparently had no time in the King Air prior to the flight, the aircraft had just been purchased prior to the flight. He exceeded the max angle of attack on takeoff and stalled it into the ground. Both engines appeared to be making full power on impact. The drugs in his system may have altered his senses causing the accident. This is a bizarre one.
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Welp.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
I think the report came back on this one a while ago. Nothing was wrong with the aircraft. The PIC had a pharmacy’s worth of drugs in his system at the time, both legal and illegal. He apparently had no time in the King Air prior to the flight, the aircraft had just been purchased prior to the flight. He exceeded the max angle of attack on takeoff and stalled it into the ground. Both engines appeared to be making full power on impact. The drugs in his system may have altered his senses causing the accident. This is a bizarre one.
Click to expand...

 
There’s a couple of things that are messed up with these KA accidents. I think much can be remedied with training, but the 142 centers and the manufacturer have to make the change, too, because their current style and guidance isn’t helping.

Also, the FAA has a report on this crash that contradicts the NTSB’s — “the left was at/near idle with the propeller windmilling.”
 
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