Failed PPL oral...

Re: !

primate said:
You're on the right track.

How about this:

Look at the beacon to determine if you are at a military field.

Military field = military fuel.

Voila !
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After reading this, I think there may have been a little confusion about what he was asking.

Are you sure the examiner didn't ask you how you could determine the difference between a military field instead of a civilian field at night?

That question is totally legitimate, and since you already know the civilian land airport beacon is green/white and not green/white/white that's how you could tell the difference.

Chasen, are you sure he said FUEL and not FIELD?

I sure as heck don't think he should have failed you even if you forgot the color of the beacon. I'm sure you could have looked it up in the AIM if need be.
 
Jshutt64 said:
I'm not sure on this, but I think you can swap but you'll have to do the entire checkride over again (not just the systems/airspace part of the oral) and then you'd have to pay the new DPE the full fee as opposed to a retest fee.
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You're only partly right. You can re-test with any DPE you choose, and you don't have to start from scratch. You only have to re-test on the items you didn't pass previously. Failing on the oral is a little more problematic than on the flight test, but again, the first DPE is supposed to list the specific unsatisfactory items on the notice of disapproval. That's mostly so he knows what to re-test you on, but it's also so you can choose another DPE if you wish.

Now a new DPE may very well want a full fee even though it's a re-test, but if the first DPE was a whack-job, that might be money well spent
 
Mike H said:
You're only partly right. You can re-test with any DPE you choose, and you don't have to start from scratch. You only have to re-test on the items you didn't pass previously. Failing on the oral is a little more problematic than on the flight test, but again, the first DPE is supposed to list the specific unsatisfactory items on the notice of disapproval. That's mostly so he knows what to re-test you on, but it's also so you can choose another DPE if you wish.

Now a new DPE may very well want a full fee even though it's a re-test, but if the first DPE was a whack-job, that might be money well spent
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Keep in mind, the DPE can choose to cover whatever he'd like on the re-ride as he seems fit (within the scope of the PTS). So even though some parts may have been satisfactory, he can still go back over and cover the same info if he'd like to. It's at the discretion of the DPE.
 
Wow....If I were you, I'd be tempted to dump this DPE right now and go with a FSDO ride, but that would probably take awhile to schedule.

I truthfully didn't think I did very well on the flight part of the checkride, and I still passed. My DPE was very nice and explained to me afterwards what I did well and what I needed to improve on. It sounds like you're not gonna learn anything from this wacko.

And like everyone else said, drop the DE, CFI, and flight school right after you get the PPL. You're paying good money to be treated like crap atm.
 
Jshutt64 said:
I was always curious about FSDO checkrides. I heard it takes over a month to schedule them...is that true?
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No idea, I would imagine it varies wildly. If they need to fly someone in, it probably takes longer.

I'll be doing a CFI-G ride soon, there are two glider DPE's the FSDO likes here. I'm not sure if you can insist on doing it with a Fed when they refer you to a DPE (common for CFI rides here), but I'll try next month ;)
 
drunkenbeagle said:
I'd just save my money and do it with the Feds. Can't be any worse than what you already went through.
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I'm seriously considering that for my CFI ride. Around here, you call the FSDO to schedule the checkride, and they give you the name of ONE DPE to choose from.
 
Mike H said:
You're only partly right. You can re-test with any DPE you choose, and you don't have to start from scratch. You only have to re-test on the items you didn't pass previously. Failing on the oral is a little more problematic than on the flight test, but again, the first DPE is supposed to list the specific unsatisfactory items on the notice of disapproval. That's mostly so he knows what to re-test you on, but it's also so you can choose another DPE if you wish.

Now a new DPE may very well want a full fee even though it's a re-test, but if the first DPE was a whack-job, that might be money well spent
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I would say count your losses and move on. You would be WAY better off choosing another DPE and getting a fair shot as opposed to using this guy again. I understand he doesn't charge the full amount on the retest, but what if he busts you for something on the flight this time? I would pay the full price with another DPE who has a good rep and not even think twice about going back to this guy.
 
Jshutt64 said:
I was always curious about FSDO checkrides. I heard it takes over a month to schedule them...is that true?
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Depends where you're at. I scheduled my CFI ride about a week in advance. I ended up failing my CFI with the FSDO, but it was a fair ride, and there really weren't any surprises. I was just under-prepared. I wouldn't mind doing another ride with them. I loved that when I failed the oral, it cost me $0. :)
 
juxtapilot said:
I was just under-prepared. I wouldn't mind doing another ride with them. I loved that when I failed the oral, it cost me $0. :)
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Does it matter to anyone how many CFI rides you fail with FSDO inspectors? Not that the pass rate is that high anyway, but I certainly have no problem saving myself a few bucks, even if I end up doing them a few times...
 
I'm sorry to hear this. I feel based on your post that the examiner was out to bust you.

The oral that you described sounded pretty similar to my multi-engine commercial. I had to know systems inside and out, draw them, explain the mechanics, troubleshooting, etc. I did pretty well throughout the oral however, ended up failing the exam on the practical. I missed precision/short field landing and I went 100' low (for a short time) on the glideslope on my engine out ILS approach. Those two things added up to a failure.

My examiner was a check airmen for Continental Airlines on the 737-5 and did FAA exams on the side.

Keep your head up and don't let this get you down. It sounds like you were pretty prepared and knew probably a bit more than a private applicant is expected to know. I know its costly to the pocket book and your confidence, but in the long run it will expand your knowledge, make you sharper, and allow you to grow from this experience.

Good luck on the 2nd go around. You'll be fine, just don't get nervous. I realize easier said than done. :pirate:
 
Truly a PPL ride from hell. To boot you have a CFI and school that doesn't seem too supportive. Sucks, because it sounds like you were and are prepared to pass. Get the ride behind you and move on. And as far as taking a PPL checkride with the feds, they may tell you to go with a DPE due to workload.
 
He asked me about military fuel. We were going over the fuel system when he asked. And he specifically said "if you can't see the color". I should have just said "I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you". That would make about as much sense as the question.

Anyway, I'm totally pissed right now. The owner canceled our meeting today, and won't be back till Monday. Sun-Fri I'm in DEN for training, I won't have much time to study PPL crap on the side. So I told my CFI I plan to solo between now and my trip to DEN to stay fresh, and he tells me the owner does NOT want me flying solo since there is a chance I bust airspace or mishandle and emergency. This is the second time I've been banned for soloing. My PPL checkride was pushed back 4 times, mostly for reasons beyond my control, before I took it on Monday. One of those times was because my CFI thought I was lacking confidence and flying a little too sloppy for the checkride. Solution? They tell me I'm not allowed to solo for at least a month until I shape up, and make me feel even more stupid.

Yeah, FML and eff this school. I guess this is the downside to training in brand new airplanes, they're totally anal about students flying them. I'm so done here.

Monday I was ready to be a PPL, but Tuesday I wasn't fit to fly solo? UGH!
 
Jshutt64 said:
Oh come on.

These guys need the axe. Seriously.
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I wish I was making this crap up dude. Seriously, I have never said one bad word about the school, the DPE, or my CFI in the past 3 years until I started asking around AFTER the oral and was told that I got screwed over.
 
If that DE has a bad rep I bet another local DE would let you retest for the retest rate.

Or maybe there's another DE that's a nice guy and if you explain what happened he'll do it for cheaper.
 
Heh when the exam started he was like "I have 4 different color-coded tests all with different questions you can choose from, 3 are easy, one no one has ever passed before. Pick one."

I thought he was kidding, I wonder if there really is some BS test in his laptop.
 
Jshutt64 said:
I was always curious about FSDO checkrides. I heard it takes over a month to schedule them...is that true?
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Yep. Some FSDOs can be a nightmare to schedule checkrides. Other FSDOs might be better but might not accept people from out of their district. As my instructor for my initial CFI put it, "the worst part of CFI training is scheduling the checkride".
 
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