Failed PPL oral...

ChasenSFO said:
"He asked me if I knew the difference between military and civilian fuel at night without looking at the color."
"Well, did you know?"
"No."
"Okay then."
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Seriously, does anyone actually know this? Because that scenario has never even OCCURRED to me.

If your PPL was that in-depth, I am shocked. I've heard of a few hard checkrides, but none that were so....difficult.
 
killbilly said:
Seriously, does anyone actually know this? Because that scenario has never even OCCURRED to me.

If your PPL was that in-depth, I am shocked. I've heard of a few hard checkrides, but none that were so....difficult.
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especially since the military is dropping JP8 for JetA
 
ChasenSFO said:
I'm HOPING to do it on Thursday and I've been hitting the books from the second I got home from that checkride. However, my CFI is freaking out and going "OMGZ THURSDAY IZ TOO SOON THERES TOO MUCH TO LEARN OMGZ WE GOTTA MEET WITH THE OWNER! HOW DID YOU FAIL?! I DONT KNOW WHAT DO DO WITH YOU!"

I am NOT impressed with him right now. You can tell he totally expected me to pass with flying colors, but he doesn't know what to do now that I failed. Ugh.
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He's watching out for his own hide...."If you fail, he fails".....At least that's what he's thinking...
 
killbilly said:
Seriously, does anyone actually know this? Because that scenario has never even OCCURRED to me.

If your PPL was that in-depth, I am shocked. I've heard of a few hard checkrides, but none that were so....difficult.
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I have no idea... I have a CFI, MEI, CFII, some other "I"'s, so I guess I need to turn in me certs cause I don't know anything about military fuel. You know why... Cause I am not in the military, dont land at military bases, and I watch the truck that has "100LL" printed on the side fill my planes. Now if the question was how do you tell the difference between 100LL and Jet A without seeing the color, I can handle that...
 
It sounded like you have a relatively green CFI but then you said you were with him for 3 years. One trick I learned that seemed to work was that I always counted to 5 in my head before I answered. That way all my answers came out at the same pace and the examiners had no idea which topics I was a little weaker on and had no self given targets to go digging in. They still tried to guess and dig a bit, but they usually wound up choosing the ones I was more confident in since I didn't give them unnecessary information.
 
Chasen,

Having just gotten my PPL and failed my first checkride I will tell you a few things I experienced.

1) When I did not know a question, systems or FAA related, I told him I did not know the answer but could look it up for him. After opening and thumbing through the Operators Manual or FAR to the correct section he told "ok, you know where it is".

2) He did ask me twice if I was "sure" of an answer. Made me rethink, but firmly told him I stood by my answer.

3) I failed my checkride for failing to execute a clearing turn before a stall. His exact words were "you were 100% up until this point". I wanted to open the door and jump. However, I kept my cool, continued the checkride and the following day I returned to perform the clearing turn.

Motto of the story is don't give up. Go back and pass the thing. Sounds like your examiner was a DB.

A few more notes: My first check ride was $400. My retake was $175. He is taking you for a ride.

When I failed my checkride my instructor and the owner said "today was not your day. Come back tomorrow and knock it out". The owner even offered a plane to me for free to go up and review clearing turns with my CFI. (I declined) Drop your CFI and Flight School.

Don't get discouraged and don't let this guy stop you.
 
!

Difference in Civilian "Fuel" and Military "Fuel"...?

NONE!!! Besides the names... sometimes.

Now military Field and Civilian Field.... YES!

The fuel question is puzzling but may be an interference in communication.
 
CBpilot said:
A few more notes: My first check ride was $400. My retake was $175. He is taking you for a ride.
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not really, depends where in the country you are. I've had DPE's charge within the range of both you and Chasen.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys. You know I have always felt that everyone at that school feels I knew WAY more then I do. And as such, I've been under prepared for all my stage checks. Just because I can talk to them about the industry and not sound 100% retarded and I'm a nerd when it comes to airline stuff and knew all the local frequencies and airport codes when I started(Flight simulator), they assume I know everything about being a PPL and flying the 172. Obviously I don't, they forget I'm a 19 year old kid still earning his ratings.

My CFI soloed me at 12 hours. My first time around the pattern solo I had the stall horn go off on base to final and had to recover. And I didn't even have the flare down, every landing was a total clunker, so I wouldn't say I was totally ready to go.

I guess if you're a CFI just do your students a favor and try not to overestimate them. Just because they have a huge passion for aviation doesn't mean they have the POH memorized.

Having just got off the phone with my CFI...I can tell you I think there was a little bragging before hand with the DPE about how well prepared I was...
 
A good DPE will always let you learn from the experience. He or she will want to teach you something while you are on the checkride. If you don't know everything, that's fine. Honestly, your DE was bonkers and has gone mad.

Every checkride, minus my CFI and ATP checkride (which I had to know everything), I've learned something new, maybe it just didn't occur to me, I had a brainfart, or something, but especially with a PVT check, you shouldn't know everything. A PVT license is a license to learn.
 
kiloalpha said:
A good DPE will always let you learn from the experience. He or she will want to teach you something while you are on the checkride. If you don't know everything, that's fine. Honestly, your DE was bonkers and has gone mad.
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:yeahthat:
 
I didn't learn anything, no explanations. When it was all over he told me all the things I got wrong, with no correct answer given, and said to give him a call when I'm ready to go again.

Well, its obvious this guy isn't going to cut me any slack. But whatever, it is what it is, at least next time when I pass, I'll know after all the crap he threw at me, I REALLY deserve the plastic in my wallet.
 
Yeah, sounds like the DPE is out of line. I mean, I am just a private, but my checkride was no where near that in depth. All I got asked on systems was some basic engine questions, what type of flaps does the a/c have. I would have failed if he went that in depth with me and I couldn't look it up...
 
Chasen, sorry to hear about your bad experience. After he asked about the military vs. civilian fuel grade(at night), your response should have been along the lines of:

1) at night I carry a flashlight (with a spare set of batteries) with me so the nighttime is not a factor

2) my POH states that my aircraft uses 100LL which should have a blue tint to it, and if necessary I reference my limitations section of my POH to determine other fuel grades that can be used in the event 100LL is not available....would you like me to check to see if military fuel is an approved alternate?

Also, just wanted to add that your instructor should not have signed you off before he felt you were ready for a checkride. Since he should have conducted an in depth review with you before your checkride, his signature says that you are ready. The comment about "now we're going to have to start all over" makes absolutely no sense. If he felt you were ready today, then he shouldn't have a problem feeling that you are ready tomorrow!

Keep truckin man, keep truckin.

As others have said, feel free to PM if there's anything that you need clarification on.

Please write up your re-ride. Good luck!
 
ChasenSFO said:
I didn't learn anything, no explanations. When it was all over he told me all the things I got wrong, with no correct answer given, and said to give him a call when I'm ready to go again.

Well, its obvious this guy isn't going to cut me any slack. But whatever, it is what it is, at least next time when I pass, I'll know after all the crap he threw at me, I REALLY deserve the plastic in my wallet.
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The DPE is supposed to give you a debriefing, explaining what you did right, what you did wrong, and what you need to do to correct it. If he's unwilling to give you at least that much, you should consider not only complaining to the FSDO, but think about using another DPE for the retest.

Busting a checkride is not the end of the world. I've experienced it more than once and so has just about everybody here. You'll pass the retest.
 
Sorry to hear about the bad DPE. Keep your head up. Once you do get your ppl, it'll feel that much sweeter.
 
wrxpilot said:
Seriously, if all this really went down this way you need to report the DE to the FAA. Do it ASAP (after you pass).
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Why the FAA will back the DPE. A member of this site had a 10 hour oral for a add-on. The DPE failed him on the Eng start. When he talked to the FAA they backed the DPE.
 
Try to make the most of the situation. Since the DPE briefed you on what you missed, study that stuff. Try to come up with good answers to them.

Put all of this behind you until the checkride is over and you have your PPL. Then see if you need to change schools, etc.

For the moment you've got a mission to complete! Suck up the lesson (no matter how unfair it seemed) and come back with a smile and a good attitude.

You'll be looking back at this years from now, and it'll all seem like a small drop in the bucket.

Now, go get that PPL !! :tmyk:
 
I would've most assuredly failed the oral if asked some of those questions. Don't sweat it and make it a learning experience. I know exactly how you feel as I busted my private the first time around for a different reason. World's not going to end, haha. :)

Keep your chin up and press on! :D
 
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