FAA VS NFL part II?

R

rhilgers

New Member
Hello,
I hope I have the correct forum.
Im not a pilot but I have an airport hazzard question.

The City of Santa Clara is planning on placing a NFL stadium at this site:
http://maps.google.com/maps?sourcei...418046,+-121.97023630142212+&um=1&sa=N&tab=wl

just over 3NM from the San Jose Airport reference point.

I know the site will be within the 65db cnel
http://www.sjc.org/community/maps/2010_SEIRJET_65.pdf
and that has its own issues with NFL games, concerts and the like.

I would like to roughly determine if the site will end up with the
same Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations, part 77 issues that
the Tempe NFL stadium caused.
http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=6521
"77.23 (a) (2) by 26 feet, a height greater than 200 feet above ground level within 3 nautical miles of airport reference of the Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport.
77.23 (a)(3) by 115 feet, a height that increases a minimum
instrument flight altitude within a terminal area. "


I know the 77.23(a)(2) max building height is 300 feet.

My question is how do I find the 77.23 (a)(3) max building height for the site? The Tempe site looks like they were using a 100:1 ratio.

Can the question be solved for without the FAA doing some major calculations?

Many thanks,
Rich
 
Thanks for your help.

I did get the answer from another site.

The answer is that its a complex question and the California DOT website shows the specialist contact info who is assigned to that section of the state.

The California DOT has been very helpful.

Thanks,
Rich
 
It'd be kind of cool if you could share a little bit of what you learn as you go along. We're mostly pilot types here so we're not intamately familiar with some of the regulatory issues that you are addressing, but we do get involved with the end result, so to speak!

:)
 
I don't know if you'll be coming back to read any more replies...

It depends on whether you are the developer trying to build/architect trying to design or a person trying to fight the construction of the stadium. :)

Some more references for you (if you don't already have them)

TERPS (FAA Order 8260.3)
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...s_guidance/orders/media/Order 8260.3_1-18.pdf

Airport Design (Advisory Circular 150/5300-13)
http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraf...y_circulars/media/150-5300-13/150_5300_13.pdf

and to keep reading on to the next paragraph of Part 77 - Part 77.25 which defines the imaginary airport surfaces and planes.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...iv8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.2.9.3.1.3&idno=14

You might also want to get a copy of the airport's Obstruction Chart - it depicts the Part 77 Surfaces and all the obstructions which penetrate the airport's Part 77 surfaces. SJC's chart is available on paper only, but the FAA is slowing getting them electronic - an example
http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/AERO/DigitalOC/PDF/LBB_OC241.pdf

In the end, all the FAA can do is declare the proposed stadium a "hazard" or "not a hazard" to air navigation. They cannot stop or prohibit the construction of the proposed stadium if it will interfere with aircraft. So effectively there is no maximum height to that stadium. If the stadium does pose a hazard to aircraft, what the FAA will do is raise the approach minimums or displace runway thresholds to regain the obstruction clearances so that the stadium won't penetrate the imaginary surfaces or just cancel affected instrument approaches.

So no problem from the FAA if the stadium is a hazard, but you might have problems getting the building insured if the FAA declares the proposed stadium a hazard to air navigation.

With the proposed stadium so close to SJC (within 3 miles I think you said), what will happen is whenever there is an event going on at the stadium - you will effectively close the airport during any event at the stadium - commercial flights won't be affected, but no one else will be allowed in or out while the event is going on. Since SJC is probably a very busy business jet airport - it would disrupt things for them. An example would be Montgomery Field in San Diego during the Super Bowl a few years ago.

AOPA was successful in getting two floors lopped off a building that was getting built in San Diego that would have interfered with approaches into Montgomery. The original design was declared not a hazard by the FAA. Then the developer added two more floors which would have interfered with the appoaches to the runways. Since the FAA couldn't stop the developer from adding the two extra floors, AOPA took up the fight and I guess they won or came to some settlement.
 
Thanks for the pointers!

I will try to post some updates now and then as it goes along. It may take till next year to get it all sorted out.

I dont mind the stadium so much. Its just been proposed in a really bad spot. They simply choose the site since its an open parking lot and "free" city land.

The FAA hazzard determination is still effectively the final word on the stadium. The insurance and a host of cascading effects killed off the Tempe site and that why the superbowl is in Glendale next month. ;)

I found Arizona changed their state law due to the issue, now the FAA is the final say. California law leans a bit toward the FAA side but there is some wiggle room for remediation.

I also found the County Airport Land Use Commision has a host of other requirements. One is that staium noise in must be below 75 DB intermitant peaks due to the airport. Since the CNEL is a weighted average its like saying that each flyover is at least 75db. Which is lower than what it sounds like at that spot. I think since the aircraft begin to bank just at that spot it raises the level a bit.

Anyway, the County Airport Land Use Commision can be overwritten by a city by a majority vote of the City Council. With one caveat, it must make some remediation to the findings. Normally this is done by upgrading the soundproofing of a home or business. (better windows, doors, roofing)

In this case an open-air stadium looks like it has no chance of working.

I checked the rest of the NFL stadium sites. I found you can quikly find the airports sound impact map by searching on the airport name and the FAA section "part 150" . Not surprisingly, I didnt find a single NFL stadium within an airport sound contour. The only stadium I could find so close to an airport was the Shea baseball stadium.

The City Council is expected to try to get a vote in by November.
In the Tempe case the FAA took the time to get pilot input.
The FAA evaluation took six months so it is likely the vote will be before the FAA finishes reviewing the site. Brilliant.

Thanks
-Rich
 
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