FAA to JAA Conversion?

flyguy25

Well-Known Member
I have a question for all you expats out there. I found a place that has a course to convert your FAA license to a JAA license. I have a few questions about it. First of all do you need to have it converted to a JAA license to fly in Europe and in other countries? How hard is it to convert it over? The program I found seems to be pretty intense to convert it to a JAA license and I am wondering if it would be worth the cost if it would open up opportunities abroad. Any other input you would have about the subject would be great to. Thanks!

Here is the program. Its call Gulf Coast Training Solutions:

http://www.faatojaaconversion.com/conversion-process/full-jaa-course/
 
I have a question for all you expats out there. I found a place that has a course to convert your FAA license to a JAA license. I have a few questions about it. First of all do you need to have it converted to a JAA license to fly in Europe and in other countries? How hard is it to convert it over? The program I found seems to be pretty intense to convert it to a JAA license and I am wondering if it would be worth the cost if it would open up opportunities abroad. Any other input you would have about the subject would be great to. Thanks!

Here is the program. Its call Gulf Coast Training Solutions:

http://www.faatojaaconversion.com/conversion-process/full-jaa-course/

Now, swisspilot will certainly have the straight dope, but from what I understand, the problem isn't really the conversion of your license (though that will be a long and potentially arduous process unless you've got scads of time in big iron) its getting the right to work over there.

Ohh, and JAA is essentially only for Europe, most countries have their own "CAA," so you'd have to convert for each country you went to. For example, if you wanted to go to Africa, you wouldn't need to convert to JAA, in fact, you'd only need to bring your FAA certs along and convert with the local government.
 
I have a question for all you expats out there. I found a place that has a course to convert your FAA license to a JAA license. I have a few questions about it. First of all do you need to have it converted to a JAA license to fly in Europe and in other countries? How hard is it to convert it over? The program I found seems to be pretty intense to convert it to a JAA license and I am wondering if it would be worth the cost if it would open up opportunities abroad. Any other input you would have about the subject would be great to. Thanks!

Here is the program. Its call Gulf Coast Training Solutions:

http://www.faatojaaconversion.com/conversion-process/full-jaa-course/

Hi flyguy, I'm actually in the process conversion right now so maybe I can shed some light on the subject. If you want to fly in Europe you need a JAA certificate (actually to fly a European registered aircraft). If there's a company flying around an N- numbered plane your FAA certs are all you need. JAA stands for Joint Aviation Authorities and is comprised of European countries, so for any region outside of that it is up to their own authority how much or little conversion is required. So for example if you want to fly for a random Asian or African airline, your FAA cert may be converted to the local authority's own, no need to get JAA. The rumor around my area is some foreign carriers prefer JAA guys to FAA, but I don't really buy that argument for the most part.

You asked how hard is it to convert, well I would say the hardest part was saving up the money to pay for it. Time is money and it takes six months of 40 hours a week just to complete the written exams (8 down, 6 to go for me). SO if you are thinking of doing the written study online, your time can really stretch on. As for the flying, it is just a Commercial checkride after a few flights depending on your proficiency. Lastly, an Instrument rating conversion needs to be completed, which can only be done in Europe. That takes 15 hours, of which 5 to 10 can be done in a sim.

It has been pretty intense and I would only recommend it for people who could dedicate 100% of their time to it. It's not impossible but the sheer volume of information is overwhelming at times. All this is a waste if you dont have a European passport or work permit, unless you can marry one soon! Hope that helps! :)
 
What are your plans? are you moving to Europe, where? you have contacts over there? do you speak other languages (French, German, Spanish,...)?

Getting the JAA ticket it`s not crazy hard, but takes time and money, when you have it you better be working since the regs to keep it current are a lot more strict then in the US. The market in Europe is slow, most of my friends with a JAA and 400-500TT are home doing nothing. Some of the airline jobs require you to be a citizen of a EU country, Switzerland, Norway or few others, some ask you to speak the local language too, not to mention companies like Ryanair, Niki,... where you will need to pay for your type rating.

I don`t know much about training for a JAA in the US, in Switzerland the law is not that strict, with CPL from the FAA all you need are 12 exams with no obligation to take ground school, and two ck rides ME CPL and IR (no min time required, you just need to train up to proficiency) if you work hard in 4-5 month you do everything. After this you need an MCC and you can apply for jobs
 
open up opportunities abroad. Any other input you would have about the subject would be great to. Thanks!

Honestly I don`t see the point, it`s not impossible but not even easy for an American to get a job in EU, the only advantages I see are in the airlines world: better salaries, better upgrades, you will big flying bigger airplanes a lot sooner than in the US and you can expect to do intercontinental flights in 10 years...other then that aviation is better in the US, maybe it`s gonna be a steeper career but you will get at the same point at the end.
 
If you have enough experience operating in Europe (like 3000 hours or so), and show proficiency and familiarity with they're airspace and systems I think JAA will transfer your certificates automatically with a checkride. I remember reading about this a couple years back, its done on a case by case basis however and theres no AUTOMATIC qualifier that will make them grant you JAA. I recommend getting your time up here in the good old USA (if you haven't already) then look at going over there. Also, as of last year (when I last checked) your JAA Medical has to be done in Europe so plan on going over there at least once, and its not a sit down and done in 30 minutes medical either...

I have an old student I can contact to get more info for you if you want. He's British, he got his FAA Certs here, switched them to JAA at the same school you mentioned and now he's flying 737s in Indonesia. But money really wasn't an issue for him during his flight training and I lost touch with him for two years so I'm not sure how much time he had when he got hired either...
 
If you have enough experience operating in Europe (like 3000 hours or so), and show proficiency and familiarity with they're airspace and systems I think JAA will transfer your certificates automatically with a checkride. I remember reading about this a couple years back, its done on a case by case basis however and theres no AUTOMATIC qualifier that will make them grant you JAA. I recommend getting your time up here in the good old USA (if you haven't already) then look at going over there. Also, as of last year (when I last checked) your JAA Medical has to be done in Europe so plan on going over there at least once, and its not a sit down and done in 30 minutes medical either...

I have an old student I can contact to get more info for you if you want. He's British, he got his FAA Certs here, switched them to JAA at the same school you mentioned and now he's flying 737s in Indonesia. But money really wasn't an issue for him during his flight training and I lost touch with him for two years so I'm not sure how much time he had when he got hired either...

You were never able to get the JAA initial medical in the US, just recurrent.

As far as getting the JAA with high level of FAA experience, it`s possible but expensive, my gfs dad did it and he had to rent an ERJ145 for the ckride, they would not let him do it on a Seneca.
 
You were never able to get the JAA initial medical in the US, just recurrent.

As far as getting the JAA with high level of FAA experience, it`s possible but expensive, my gfs dad did it and he had to rent an ERJ145 for the ckride, they would not let him do it on a Seneca.

So it is true? I did my own research on this and found that you could be granted JAA with enough experience but never actually met or heard of anyone that got it with just the check. Why wouldn't they let him do it in the Seneca? The cost of an ERJ for 2.5 (minimum time for a JAA checkride) would almost completely offset the cost of all the ground schools and checkrides in light singles and twins anyway. But at least this way its quicker!
 
So it is true? I did my own research on this and found that you could be granted JAA with enough experience but never actually met or heard of anyone that got it with just the check. Why wouldn't they let him do it in the Seneca? The cost of an ERJ for 2.5 (minimum time for a JAA checkride) would almost completely offset the cost of all the ground schools and checkrides in light singles and twins anyway. But at least this way its quicker!

yeah it`s possible, I also think you can fly a G registered airplane with an FAA CPL and fly commercially, I just don`t remember what the flight time is that you need to have.
 
Another thing you could do is the so-called ATPL "FROZEN", which is nothing but taking all your written exams and stop there. You written tests (ATPL frozen) are good for 7 yrs, instead of the 2 yrs the FAA gives us in the US.

Also, keep in mind that based on your experience -flight time, time in type, PIC vs. SIC time- there may be different paths you can take.

Bottom line is -like swisspilot mentioned- if you don't have a VISA for the country you want to work in, well, after you converted FAA to JAA, you are pretty much screwed.
I'm a EU citizen myself and I believe that getting a flying job in the US would be a lot easier than the EU...too many strings attached.

As for full time vs. part time, I considered that too...if you really want to do it, well take 6 months off (somebody out there offers a 21 week long program) and do it full time.

If I were you, I'd do the FAA-CAA (Canada) conversion. Heck of a lot easier. You are basically paying for a canadian medical (taken in the US), then show up in Canada and take a 25 Qs written test. End of the story.
However....you need a visa there too. With that being said, it may be easier to marry a gal from Canada, than from EU...fewer socio-cultural differences...trust me...lol

good luck
 
Hello everybody, this is a good thread for those interested in the JAA conversion, and there has been a lot of good information posted, but also some misinformation, so let me post the facts.

JAA is in the process of being replaced by EASA for licensing purposes by 2012. Some of the medical and licensing requirements will change a little bit, but the biggest issue we will see is better harmonisation between the member nations. There are N-registered aircraft being operated in Europe, but EASA is trying to make it illegal to own and operate an N-Registered aircraft based in Europe for longer than one year, call it European protectionism or what you want, but for those operating on FAA certs here in Europe, this could possibly be an issue (the biggest issue is amongst European pilots who could not pass the stringent JAA medicals but were able to obtain an FAA medical and license). AOPA international is strongly fighting this.

Medical: Your initial class 1 must be completed in the country where you plan on doing the conversion, recurrent medicals can be completed by approved doctors. If you want to get a JAA license in the UK, you must have your initial completed at Gatwick at the CAA, but they also accept the Irish IAA initial class 1. The CAA of the UK will also accept initial class 1 medicals from other JAA member countries but there is a little bit of paperwork involved. When I went for my medical, they gave me a reduced exam on the basis that I am a CPL holder of another ICAO nation, so my ¨reduced¨ medical was still 4 hours long. I can´t speak for other countries, word on the street here is that the Irish medical is even more difficult than the UK medical.

The licence: my experience is strictly with the UK CAA, but I know each country works a little differently, (for example Switzerland where no ground course is required and no minimum flight time requirements for the conversion as stated above). If you want a job in JAA land, you will need either a full ATPL or a ¨frozen¨ ATPL, which means you have completed the theory exams but not the flight requirements.

The conversion:
If you have:
  • more than 1500 hours on two-pilot aircraft,
  • are type rated already and
  • have more than 500 hours on type
You need to pass all 14 ground exams but don't need to attend a formal groundschool course. You may take a skills test on the aircraft you are rated on or you may choose to take two separate tests, a skills test for license issue and an IR conversion.

The UK CAA will issue a licence restricted to G Registered (UK registered aircraft only) aircraft if you meet the following criteria:
  • more than 3000 hours total time on aircraft of more than 30,000kg AUW
  • more than 1500 hours pilot in command on aircraft of more than 30,000kg AUW
  • type rated on an aircraft of more than 30,000kg AUW
  • more than 500 hours total time on the aircraft above
  • able to complete a flight test on the same aircraft
For those with a CPL but not an ATP:

Groundschool Requirements
If you hold a non-JAA CPL you need to do an approved groundschool course and then pass all fourteen ground exams, there is no credit given. If you hold a JAA CPL you still need to pass all the exams and complete a course but the training requirement is reduced.
Flying Requirements
You will need to pass two flight tests:
  • The Skills Test
  • The Instrument Rating
Skills Test
The skills test is a handling check flown on a complex aircraft, defined as an aircraft with retractable gear and a variable pitch prop. If you are converting a CPL there is no formal training requirement but you should anticipate 10 to 15 hours to get used to the profile and the aircraft.

Instrument Rating
If you already hold an ICAO IR the training requirement for conversion is to complete at least 15 hours before the test, up to ten can be completed in a simulator.
If you have never held an Instrument Rating you must complete 50 hours of training before the test, up to 35 hours can be done in the simulator.
Multi Crew Co-operation
Many companies require a Multi Crew Co-operation (MCC) course to have been completed before they will employ you. An MCC course is not required if you have spent more than 500 hours operating multi-pilot aircraft.
CPL Conversions

Additional notes: The CPL checkride for JAA can be completed in the US, there are some schools in Florida and California (and Arizona but those are specific to integrated programs based in Europe). The instrument flying, as mentioned before, MUST be done in European airspace. The UK CAA is one of the few countries that accepts the IR rating completed in another JAA member country (as opposed to the checkride being flown exclusively with a UK examiner).

The MCC course is a requirement for getting hired at a majority of airlines in Europe (unless you have that 500 hrs of experience in multi-crew aircraft).

Summary, it is a long process, lots of bureaucracy to figure out, not as straightforward as the FAA, and it is expensive. But for me and my family, it is worth it as we are now close to my wife´s family and friends and we like the quality of life that we experience in Europe. For those who don´t have working rights in Europe, I only see two advantages to getting the JAA license, first of all, you will learn a great deal of knowledge that you will never really need but it is interesting and your understanding of certain aspects of aviation may be approved. Secondly, there is talk of new legislation that the JAA schools in the US will require flight instructors with JAA ratings (since many schools use FAA instructors). Getting a JAA flight instructor licence will give you the ability to work at these schools if the legislation comes into effect.

Let me know if you have any questions about JAA conversion, specifically regarding conversion in the UK.
 
Yes, JAA has been superseded by EASA but as yet there is no real agreement on what the new regs will be. Getting all these countries (Austria* Finland* Latvia Romania*
Belgium* France* Lithuania Slovak Republic, Bulgaria Germany* Luxembourg Slovenia Cyprus Greece Malta Spain* Czech Republic* Hungary Netherlands* Sweden*
Denmark* Ireland Poland* United Kingdom* Estonia Italy* Portugal) to agree is probably going to be more difficult and contentious than the new US Congress.
 
Yes, JAA has been superseded by EASA but as yet there is no real agreement on what the new regs will be. Getting all these countries (Austria* Finland* Latvia Romania*
Belgium* France* Lithuania Slovak Republic, Bulgaria Germany* Luxembourg Slovenia Cyprus Greece Malta Spain* Czech Republic* Hungary Netherlands* Sweden*
Denmark* Ireland Poland* United Kingdom* Estonia Italy* Portugal) to agree is probably going to be more difficult and contentious than the new US Congress.

Yeah, getting everyone to agree will be the hard part, but the difference between EASA and JAA is that EASA will be LAW in the EU, and EFTA countries may participate, third party countries may also be allowed to participate. The JAA also has many member nations outside the EFTA and EU. JAA allowed everyone to meet and come up with harmonisation, but in the end each CAA/DGAC could return to their home country and implement what they deemed fit. By the way Orange Anchor, I liked your article you wrote.
 
Thanks. It was interesting to talk to the people involved and yes, one can do home study for the 14 exams but the pass rate is rather abysmal without attending some class even if it is just a cram course. And then one has to be signed off to take the exams which are not cheap.

I was surprised somewhat at the variance in how different JAA licenses were regarded and some contacts, not mentioned in the article, said some JAA licenses were not worth much in the aviation market. And too, some of the big international carriers (Emirates for example) do not require a JAA. Also, many countries require the initial medical exam to be done in their country and that too is not cheap.

I was surprised at the time and costs involved.

Also, there are a number of websites that have some of the JAA exam questions and a short perusal shows that they are much more involved in theory than the FAA exams.
Here's one. http://www.aviationtire.com/atplsubject.cfm
 
Study at home used to have abysmal pass rates but schools such as Oxford, Bristol, and CATS have extremely high pass rates and have teaching for the JAA exams down to an art. It does require each student putting in the time. The exams are expensive, 61GBP per test if using a UK testing center, and since there are only four centers, you need to budget lodging and transportation.

Here is an example of my budget:
1900 GBP for ground school course with 4 weeks of brushup included
854 GBP for 14 exams (CAA exam fees)
600 GBP FOR 4 weeks lodging in a B&B near Bristol
400 GBP for 3 airplane tickets round trip to the UK From Barcelona
460 GBP for lodging at Gatwick for exams and medical
150 GBP for two one way trips from Bristol to Gatwick
330 GBP for JAR class 1 medical
60 GBP for translation of ECG from Spanish to English (CAA required an extra test from me)

11000 euros for flight training and flight testing in Jerez Spain including lodging and transportation
(there is a separate instrument rating for single engine and multiengine in JAA land)

Total time 10 months and I quit my job, my wife is working and I am taking care of the kids in the morning
 
You have essentially created the schooling profile of a professional aviator's course. Excellent focus and attention to detail. Nicely done.
 
Yeah the old "G" exemption with 3500 hrs of heavy jet (greater then 30k Kilos) pic you can take 2 tests and get a CAA National license. Other JAA countries can grant exemptions and issue a national license or even validate. That does not get you a JAA license. Don't see any break of the insanity of the JAR FCL. Still have to pass the 14 tests. Doesn't matter if you flew top cover for Eddie Rickenbacker or have some shuttle time in your log book.
 
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