FAA: Number of Student Pilots Down

seaav8tor said:
As stated a shortage is where you can raise the price and continue to sell your goods or services. Raise your hourly rate to that of the local car dealership mechanic ( $100 per hour ). Report back. If you are still turning students away then I will believe you do in fact have a shortage down there.
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Your making some common, yet inaccurate assumptions about pricing.
1. The amount a mechanic earns where you live must be the amount a mechanic earns throughout the country. I live in a low cost area- mechanics make about $50/hour.
I've also seen this error in salaries. I remember a Guard buddy bragging to me that his airline had set the standard for pay rates and that he earned more than me. I then did the cost comparison for him- he was based in one of the highest cost areas of the country, I was based in one of the lowest cost areas. His salary was only average for his area in what it could purchase, mine was above average.
2. The amount earned for trade X can not be compared to the amount earned for trade Y on a straight line. Just because a mechanic charges X it can not be assumed MY market will also tolerate X. I must individually evaluate my market and see what it can sustain. Another month and I will probably raise my rates.
 
Students are definately down at the flight school that I work for. We have 4 full time instructors and I am the only one that flies on a regular basis. That is only because I'm a two year CFI, MEI, CFII, the ground school instructor for the G1000 and I've been here the longest.

Even with that I'm normally only getting about 2 flights a day. The whole year has been like this. We thought it would pick up in the summer but it hasn't. Right now I'm down compared to last year by about 50 hours.
 
It's $$ plain and simple. Maybe someone with some knowledge on the subject could enlighten me but heres my situation. My flight school has three 172's....two M's from the 70's and a R. 110 a hour solo for the M's and 120 for the R. How much profit are they making on these rentals? I have no idea if the M's are paid off, insurance, etc. .... but it's a simple fact, if the price were to drop enough MANY people would begin to fly. I have several friends i take up, love it, but the price simply scares them away. For those of us who wish to someday fly for a living, it's worth it and frankly most of us on here would pay double these rates if thats what it took to fly! But for the average Joe, who wants to fly on Sunday afternoon....it's just to much money. So anyways!.....whats the business model of a flight school look like? Profit margins, etc.
 
Donny Boy said:
It's $$ plain and simple. Maybe someone with some knowledge on the subject could enlighten me but heres my situation. My flight school has three 172's....two M's from the 70's and a R. 110 a hour solo for the M's and 120 for the R. How much profit are they making on these rentals? I have no idea if the M's are paid off, insurance, etc. .... but it's a simple fact, if the price were to drop enough MANY people would begin to fly. I have several friends i take up, love it, but the price simply scares them away. For those of us who wish to someday fly for a living, it's worth it and frankly most of us on here would pay double these rates if thats what it took to fly! But for the average Joe, who wants to fly on Sunday afternoon....it's just to much money. So anyways!.....whats the business model of a flight school look like? Profit margins, etc.
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Main costs for a flight school are insurance, insurance, hanger/building lease, fuel, and insurance. The cost of the aircraft is probably pretty low if not non-existent (if they're paid off), in fact many places just lease their aircraft and pay based on the time put on the a/c every month.

The margins really aren't that high, maybe making $10/hr in rental and $10-$20/hr on the instructors. So really they like making money off of instruction more than just rental.
 
crazyjaydawg said:
Main costs for a flight school are insurance, insurance, hanger/building lease, fuel, and insurance. The cost of the aircraft is probably pretty low if not non-existent (if they're paid off), in fact many places just lease their aircraft and pay based on the time put on the a/c every month.

The margins really aren't that high, maybe making $10/hr in rental and $10-$20/hr on the instructors. So really they like making money off of instruction more than just rental.
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You forgot maintenance. $1500 for a stall vain that is less complicated than a light switch???
 
A decrease in the number of student pilots does not equal a pilot shortage when the industry has been shrinking. Fewer jobs and thousands of pilots currently on the street would mean that if there were ZERO student pilots there would ONE DAY be a shortage after all those on the street got picked back up. Even then there is still a ton of us waiting in line behind the furloughees/experienced unemployed pilots for something... ANYTHING to move on to. A 'shortage' is a pipe dream right now.

I'm amazed anyone is pursuing a career in aviation with the stagnation that is happening right now.
 
The FAA doesn't really make much sense until you understand what drives it - a pure raw hate for all things aviation.

In seriousness though, I think this falls under the "promotion of aviation" agenda for the FAA. And of course to give them something to do.

You know I worked as a contractor for the FAA, working on a software system called IRMIS, a rule making system. I don't like to bad mouth them because my grandfather retired from the FAA and I've always had a love/hate relationship with them. Honestly when I first walked into the FAA and saw a Piper Cub hanging from the ceiling I was in "the holy place".

But wow was that position an eye opener. There are a lot of pilots in the FAA working as true advocates and I applaud them. But a lot of people I met were not into aviation whatsoever and were simply professional government employees. Think long lunches, short hours, and the inability to get fired without a congressional inquiry. Their main focus? Keeping the institution alive.
 
Donny Boy said:
It's $$ plain and simple. Maybe someone with some knowledge on the subject could enlighten me but heres my situation. My flight school has three 172's....two M's from the 70's and a R. 110 a hour solo for the M's and 120 for the R. How much profit are they making on these rentals? I have no idea if the M's are paid off, insurance, etc. .... but it's a simple fact, if the price were to drop enough MANY people would begin to fly. I have several friends i take up, love it, but the price simply scares them away. For those of us who wish to someday fly for a living, it's worth it and frankly most of us on here would pay double these rates if thats what it took to fly! But for the average Joe, who wants to fly on Sunday afternoon....it's just to much money. So anyways!.....whats the business model of a flight school look like? Profit margins, etc.
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You would be surprised how expensive commercial insurance on a rental/training aircraft is. For a 172M:

Fuel: $40/hr.
Engine Reserve (On a 1000 hour engine): $17/hr.
Oil: $2-$4/hr.
Maintenance: $20-$30/hr.

So even with just the variable costs, not including tie down/hangar fees, insurance, rental, loan payments, employees, it can get really expensive really fast.
 
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