FAA legal interpretations

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Sure, I'll ask the qustion! Actually, it's already been posed in the checkride central forum, but here goes: If you have a single and multi private and take your instrument checkride in a multi... do you need to prove proficiency to an examiner in a single engine airplane?

[/ QUOTE ]You do not. An IA received in a single is not directly transferable to a multi, but an IA received in a multi applies to both classes.

It's not because of some specific regulation that says that an instrument rating in one class of airplane isn't transferable to another. It's a bit more convoluted. Essentially it's due to the existence of two multi-engine-specific tasks involving single engine operation in instrument conditions. Without those two tasks, there's no instrument privileges on the multiengine certificate.

Since the IA itself is a category, not a class rating, it's handled on the certificate by placing a limitation ("VFR only") on the multi-engine rating (not the instrument rating) if those two tasks are not completed.

It doesn't happen the other way. A pilot who does her instrument rating in a multi completes all of the PTS tasks for both classes. You don't have the missing task problem.

There's no formal FAA Legal interpretation on this that I'm aware of. But there is a Part 61 FAQ that covers the issue (reprinted below) and, even though the FAQ is not a binding legal interpretation, the FAQ is part of the FAA's very important and worthwhile effort to standardize the way FSDOs and DPEs apply the regs. The Examiner who said you need a second ride needs recurrent training.

And to answer your original question, there is no online source for the interpretations. The Summit Aviation CD has a bunch, but not all. The most complete set is a multi-volume hardcopy set from West Publishing Company that costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $400.

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QUESTION: Situation is, I have an applicant who holds a Private Pilot Certificate with an Airplane Single-engine Land and Airplane Multiengine Land ratings. The applicant is seeking an Instrument Airplane rating and the airplane being utilized for the practical test is a Cessna 310 multiengine airplane. If the applicant passes the Instrument Airplane practical test in a multiengine airplane, does the Instrument privileges convey over to the Airplane - Single-engine Land rating?

ANSWER: Ref. FAA Order 8710.3C, page 11-2, paragraph 13 and § 61.65(a)(8)(i); Yes, the instrument privileges convey over to the Airplane - Single-engine Land rating.
QUESTION: Situation is, I have an applicant who holds a Private Pilot Certificate with an Airplane Single-engine Land and Airplane Multiengine Land ratings. The applicant is seeking an Instrument Airplane rating and the airplane being utilized for the practical test is a Cessna 172 single-engine airplane. If the applicant passes the Instrument Airplane practical test in a single-engine airplane, does the Instrument privileges convey over to the Airplane - Multiengine Land rating?

ANSWER: Ref. Instrument Rating PTS, page 6; FAA Order 8710.3C, page 11-2, paragraph 13; and § 61.65(a)(8)(i) - No, the instrument privileges do not convey over to the Airplane - Multiengine Land rating. The Airplane - Multiengine Land rating will have the “VFR Only” limitation attached to it.
 
I looked through those FAQ's and I must've just looked over that. Huh. Guess I'll be a little more thorough next time reading through those FAQ's... thanks a lot for the response!!
 
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if I was giving instrument training in a multi, I need to have my students go fly an approach in a single. Whatever. Glad I got that figured out... thanks for the input!

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Mind you, it wouldn't hurt to get some approach practice in a single if one hasn't done it before prior to taking the plane into IMC, but it's not required for one to do so.

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I would highly recommend anybody getting some training in a single prior to going into IMC. From a safety standpoint, that's a no brainer. I'm just glad I wouldn't have to send my student up with a DE for an approach in a single!
 
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ANSWER: Ref. FAA Order 8710.3C, page 11-2, paragraph 13 and § 61.65(a)(8)(i); Yes, the instrument privileges convey over to the Airplane - Single-engine Land rating.
QUESTION: Situation is, I have an applicant who holds a Private Pilot Certificate with an Airplane Single-engine Land and Airplane Multiengine Land ratings. The applicant is seeking an Instrument Airplane rating and the airplane being utilized for the practical test is a Cessna 172 single-engine airplane. If the applicant passes the Instrument Airplane practical test in a single-engine airplane, does the Instrument privileges convey over to the Airplane - Multiengine Land rating?

ANSWER: Ref. Instrument Rating PTS, page 6; FAA Order 8710.3C, page 11-2, paragraph 13; and § 61.65(a)(8)(i) - No, the instrument privileges do not convey over to the Airplane - Multiengine Land rating. The Airplane - Multiengine Land rating will have the “VFR Only” limitation attached to it.


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This is no longer true. The FAA will no allow/issue Multi-engine "VFR Only" restrictions. (As of 8/2002). In the scenario above the applicant would be required to demonstrate instrument proficiency in the multi-engine aircraft as well.
 
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This is no longer true. The FAA will no allow/issue Multi-engine "VFR Only" restrictions. (As of 8/2002). In the scenario above the applicant would be required to demonstrate instrument proficiency in the multi-engine aircraft as well.

[/ QUOTE ]Of course it doesn't affect the answer to the original question, but are you sure of that?

I know that an instrument rated single engine pilot is no longer permitted to decline performing the engine-inop instrument tasks when applying for a multi-engine rating.

But I wasn't aware of anything in the regulations or the Instrument PTS that will force, for example, a VFR-only pilot who is already single and multi-rated to take an instrument rating test in a multi-engine airplane instead of or in addition to a single.
 
Pretty sure ... been awhile since I looked at it but 90% sure ... I'll check, but feel free to dig aorund yourself too.

Could be wrong, as always, however.
 
MidlifeFlyer is correct, and found the FAQ I was looking for! An applicant can't be forced to take the IR ride in a multi-engine airplane.
While it's not a great idea, I have come across several pilots who did the ME add-on limited to VFR, but I don't know if this is disallowed now. It never made any sense to me to have a ME rating limited to VFR.
Regarding FAQs, our FSDOs safety program manager mentioned the FAA will start adhering to what's printed there for consistency, but it will be interesting to see if there are any changes if someone other John Lynch is giving the interpretations! I hear he's getting on in years and health isn't good.
 
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Part61 FAQ, Revision #20, April 6, 2004

QUESTION: I have a situation where an applicant is seeking an additional Airplane Multiengine Land class rating at the Private Pilot Certification level. <font color="red">The applicant currently holds a Private Pilot Certificate with an Airplane Single Engine Land rating and an Instrument-Airplane rating (meaning the applicant accomplished his Instrument – Airplane rating in a single engine airplane).</font> The applicant does not want instrument privileges for the Airplane Multiengine Land rating and does not want to demonstrate the required instrument tasks. The multiengine airplane the applicant is taking the practical test in is instrument capable. But the applicant does not want instrument privileges and is agreeable to receive the “VFR Only” limitation on his Airplane Multiengine Land rating. Can this applicant accomplish the additional Airplane Multiengine Land rating at the Private Pilot Certification level without being required to accomplish Area of Operation XI. Multiengine Operations Tasks C and D and receive the “VFR Only” limitation on the Airplane Multiengine Land rating?


ANSWER: Ref. Private Pilot PTS – Airplane (SEL, MEL, SES, MES), FAA?S?8081-14A, Additional Rating Task Table – Airplane Multiengine Land, page 2-v; The applicant must accomplish Tasks C and D of Area of Operation XI. As of August 2002, the Private Pilot PTS – Airplane (SEL, MEL, SES, MES), FAA?S?8081-14A was revised and now the applicant is not permitted the choice of electing not to accomplish Engine Failure During Flight and (Task C) and Instrument Approach-One Engine Inoperative by reference to instruments (Task D). <font color="red">The applicant must be tested on Tasks C and D unless the aircraft is not capable of performing these required instrument tasks.</font>
{Q&amp;A-220b}
aemlins
 
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Regarding FAQs, our FSDOs safety program manager mentioned the FAA will start adhering to what's printed there for consistency, but it will be interesting to see if there are any changes if someone other John Lynch is giving the interpretations!

[/ QUOTE ]In the long term, even though Lynch knows the regs like the back of his hand, it probably doesn't matter that much who is writing the interpretations. After all, even Lynch is wrong from time to time and corrections, usually based on an FAA Legal Counsel review, are issued. The important thing is that the project be continued and, unless changed, FSDOs apply them consistently.

And pilot602 is correct about an ME checkride requiring the performance of the instrument tasks if the pilot is already instrument rated. The only exception for =that= ride is if the ME airplane isn't equipped to do the instrument tasks. 602 and I are looking at requirements for the instrument checkride if the applicant is already multi-rated.
 
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602 and I are looking at requirements for the instrument checkride if the applicant is already multi-rated.


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I could swear that the "initial" Instrument Rating, now, required a single/multi private to show proficency in the multi but I can't seem to find the language anywhere ... I do remember that it wasn't an obvious statement, that it was "inferred" through some other language which I thought was in the PTS but I combed the PTS last night and couldn't find anything related to this idea. So, I dunno I'll keep looking but I'm starting to think I might have been confused ... wouldn't be the first time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
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