FAA interpretation help

Do you have a link? I was always under the impression if before the flight the two pilots agree the lesser rated pilot is PIC, the ATP guy is off the hook.

I wish I could give you one, but I can't. I do recall reading it in an AOPA mag on a DH recently....

It actually addressed the above scenario. An ATP actually grabbed the controls cause he had too. I can't remember too much else specifically, but I was shaking my head. It was in a fairly recent Legal Pilot though....
 
I think it's also important to separate logging advice for someone already flying for a 121 operation from that of a guy working his way through his ratings. Telling the OP that he shouldn't include over half of his flight time as PIC is bad advice at his stage. Once he's ready to move to the majors, with a few thousand hours of turbine, that couple of hundred hours in a C172 probably won't matter.

That's not what I said. I said if he worked at an aircarrier, he shouldn't log half his time as PIC

I did partake in logging dual and PIC when I was working my way up in the ratings. I don't take an issue with that. I fully understand the importance of getting the qualifications for meeting Part 135 mins, or an instrument or commercial or ATP rating. I even think you're foolish if you don't do it, for the exact reasons I stated in my post.



What I do take issue with is doing it as a designated SIC, at any level 121 operation.

Here is where there is a disconnect between an academic argument versus practical application. In a crewed airplane you are NEVER a sole manipulator of the controls. At least not in any crewed plane that I've flown (which in reality are few in number). The CA will taxi out, or if the SIC can taxi, the SIC will hand the airplane over to the CA for the brief. The Part 1 PIC will release the brakes. I guess from the interpretation you can log from when the brakes are released and you assume control of the aircraft to the point when you brief, to the point where the CA takes the aircraft back to turn off the runway. So a 2.0 flight might be logged as 1.0 PIC and 1.0 SIC then?

There is a GINORMOUS difference between logging PIC/dual recieved simultaneously and logging half your flight time as PIC if you are hired at a 121 operation and you are a designated SIC. I'm not sure if you've flown at a 121 operation, but you'd clearly see what I'm getting at.

When I did OT at the old shop and I'd get a right seat assignment, I was usually the senior pilot and a checkpilot. If I wasn't performing a linecheck, I was logging SIC.
 
Are you working on your instrument rating? I suspect not. ;)

You are correct. I have been in the industry for over 11+ years and hold an ATP with both PIC and SIC types in various transport category jets and turboprops. I also have flow 135 single pilot and crewed cargo/pax ops as well as been a CFII/ground instructor.

Polar, I have heard of similar incidents/accidents that you describe and I believe the FAA will go after the highest rated airman on the aircraft regardless of who was designated as PIC before the flight.
 
That's not what I said. I said if he worked at an aircarrier, he shouldn't log half his time as PIC

I know you didn't. I was just trying to get back to the original point of discussion, which was offering advice to those working on their initial ratings. They've heard some intimidating talk about how they shouldn't log as PIC time some time that is rightfully loggable as PIC, so they're a bit confused as how to handle it.

What they need to understand is that the advice that you and Bandit Driver are giving them is primarily applicable for when they're flying in the 121 world and logging time for their next job. I only defended logging the 121 time as "sole manipulator" to ensure they understood the law, not as a recommendation for something they should necessarily do. I have no advice to offer in that respect.

I think we're in agreement.
 
I am going to have to disagree Tg. Just because one can do something doesn't mean they should do it. And you cannot honestly say everyone else is doing it. I for one log time in a more conservative matter and I am sure there are others out their too.
I'm trying to picture the poor guy who is a CFI with an FBO at small airport where they also do some 135 cargo and sometimes a little short charter. The regular pilot is leaving for a better job. The folks who run the FBO would love to hire the CFI. They don't care about his "experience". They know him. They just care that he qualifies for FAA minimums.

He would qualify for the FAA's Part 135 minimums for the operation if he logged his time according to the FAA's rules. Unfortunately, he took someone's advice about not logging what the FAA allows and, according to his logbook, he can't take the job.

Too bad.
 
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