FAA Chief Will Draft Rules to Address Fatigue

Ladies and gentlemen, settle down.

There are more important issues at play than our egos.

Public safety, our livelihoods, and a chance to make things better for all are on the table.

Arguing amongst ourselves won't help much.

Please, try to be civil.
 
I, again, have no personal experience with any of this stuff but do take an interest because hopefully one day it does affect me and I want (and rightfully should) to be in the loop as early as possible on these intricacies. I would imagine that is part of the reason Doug first created this forum.
One theme that seems to keep popping up is money, mostly a lack of. Both on the airlines part and the proper funding of ALPA et al. Maybe that is the issue that should be addressed, I mean the only entity that is able to continually operate in teh red is the federal govt and I don't see the airline buisness ever getting that big. But the issue seems more like it should be how do you get more money for the airlines and ALPA. On the flip side, when people do contribute money, which as far as I know is not required, don't turn around and bash those same people for "only" giving money. It is better than nothing. And from reading this specific thread it definitely does not seem to be an effective means to promoting others to join in and fight the good fight. In fact is seems to alienate said people such as Tram, which in teh long run is probably doing more damage than good.


edit:as this thread originally started out about fatigue factors I am in no way trying to downplay fatigue
 
don't worry Tram....just remember, if you see personalities like this on an ALPA ballot, just say no thanks.

If the profession has a prayer, let alone hope for the future, those who would be "leaders" in ALPA WILL listen to the membership, with not a hint of the ego that has raised it's ugly head in here.
 
and pay no attention to that newbie business that has been assigned to me. I have 30+ years, one nuke airline war, and countless battles in, around and with ALPA under my belt.

Scuttle the loose cannons, Lads, if ye intend to survive.
 
juan valdez said:
...who now has to unfortunately fly around stupid civilian pax?
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The correct adjective used by Velo is "white trash" to describe those that pay his salary.


Firebird2XC said:
Ladies and gentlemen, settle down.

There are more important issues at play than our egos.

Public safety, our livelihoods, and a chance to make things better for all are on the table.

Arguing amongst ourselves won't help much.

Please, try to be civil.
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And yet the ALPA "leadership" on this site has proven again and again they care for nothing more then pulling the ladder up on incoming recruits, inflating their already massive egos, and trying to see whose God complex is bigger.

2ifbyC said:
and pay no attention to that newbie business that has been assigned to me. I have 30+ years, one nuke airline war, and countless battles in, around and with ALPA under my belt.

Scuttle the loose cannons, Lads, if ye intend to survive.
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Wise, wise words. The time of us vs. them is gone. In this globally competative world there has to be a renewed interest in working with mgt. to better both sides. That doesn't mean caving to mgt, it means trying to lay out a foundation for the pilots and the company to prosper.
 
2ifbyC said:
and pay no attention to that newbie business that has been assigned to me. I have 30+ years, one nuke airline war, and countless battles in, around and with ALPA under my belt.

Scuttle the loose cannons, Lads, if ye intend to survive.
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Welcome youngster! :)
 
2ifbyC said:
and pay no attention to that newbie business that has been assigned to me. I have 30+ years, one nuke airline war, and countless battles in, around and with ALPA under my belt.

Scuttle the loose cannons, Lads, if ye intend to survive.
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Your quote about "listening to the membership", and a location of "Florence" (of the KY variety? or the Italy variety?) leads me to guess who you work for. :)

Welcome. I'm happy to hear another "well-seasoned" individual joining up here. :) Please stick around!!
 
2ifbyC said:
If the profession has a prayer, let alone hope for the future, those who would be "leaders" in ALPA WILL listen to the membership, with not a hint of the ego that has raised it's ugly head in here.
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:clap:

:beer:

2ifbyC said:
and pay no attention to that newbie business that has been assigned to me. I have 30+ years, one nuke airline war, and countless battles in, around and with ALPA under my belt.

Scuttle the loose cannons, Lads, if ye intend to survive.
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Welcome. It's great to have another old salt riding around on here.

I'm all ears, boss.



MQAAord said:
Your quote about "listening to the membership", and a location of "Florence" (of the KY variety? or the Italy variety?) leads me to guess who you work for.
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Florence, SC?
 
thank you Steve,
there truely are more issues than be solved by the loose cannons. It's time for the membership to be heard from on the properties where contracts have languished for years, and pay scales are an embarrasment.

The industry, and profession is in dire straits, as is the nation, I'm afraid....
 
good guesses, guys, but it's Florence, Alabama... and I'm with FedEx now....Eastern before...Uncle Navy B4 that.

And thanks for teh kind words
 
Tram said:
Had 3407 not crashed, there would be ZERO talk of fatigue on the news.. The public outcry for "change" would not be there.. If ALPA is soo overly powerful, why in the 70+ years ALPA has been around, are they just NOW getting around to solving the fatigue issue, if indeed, it has been ALPA who pushed it through..
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If it weren't for ALPA, there wouldn't be any push for changes to the rules despite the crash. ALPA is the one that went in and started talking with lawmakers and Administration officials as soon as possible after the crash to make sure something was done. If it weren't for ALPA, it wouldn't have happened. Yes, the crash was the trigger. But ALPA was the one that pulled the trigger.

Please explain to me, in a way other than blaming it on Mr. Bush:
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That's like asking someone to explain to you why the sky is blue without discussing the scattering of light.

Here's something else for you zealots.. In a discussion with a friend, a very good point was made concerning the hypocrisy of ALPA. Continental kicks ALPA off the property in the '80s and goes their own way post-strike.
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To be clear, the pilots at CAL never kicked ALPA off the property. Continental founder and CEO Bob Six voluntarily recognized ALPA way back in 1940 without requiring the pilots to take a vote (yep, different kind of manager, huh?). Frank Lorenzo came along in 1983 and took Continental into bankruptcy. Using the fact of how ALPA was certified at CAL under Bob Six without a vote, he got a judge to agree that ALPA was not the legal bargaining agent for the CAL pilots if Continental suddenly decided not to recognize ALPA, since an official vote was never taken. That is why ALPA did not come back in '85 when the strike ended and the non-scabs returned to work.

Many pilots are put on the ALPA scab list. A number of years later, in order to get back on CAL property, ALPA conveniently "forgives" said scabs so they can get back "in" with CAL. So much for any sort of morals or standing for anything.....just follow the money??
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Money has nothing to do with it. There was actually a huge debate in the ALPA BOD, because most ALPA reps didn't care about the money and didn't want to let the SCABs back in. At the pleading of the CAL loyal strikers that never crossed the picket line, the BOD agreed to forgive the SCABs so that a vote could be successful at CAL. The vote never would have passed at CAL without forgiving the SCABs, because they controlled so much of the vote, and the ALPA reps didn't want to leave the loyal strikers and newhires who never crossed the picket line out in the cold.
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
Yeah, I skipped some parts.
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And to think that I posted this in order to get some discussion going on what the rules should look like. I sure as hell didn't plan on starting a pissing contest.

Can we all agree that the very fact that the FAA head will be drafting new rules on pilot fatigue is a good thing?

Now is the time for you guys who are in the industry -- I ain't got a dog in this fight because nobody's going to set maximum hours on duty for me but since my employer has to pay me time and a half if they exceed 40 hours that keeps them in check -- to work together to make sure those rules are something you want.

A pissing contest about who's been involved in ALPA leadership roles and who hasn't is NOT the right way to get rules put in place that you like.
 
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