FAA administrative action?

Fly2kCovid

New Member
So a few years ago I got a phone number for a possible flying deviation, ended up getting a generic loi and then a call from a inspector about a heading deviation. After talking to him he said he will just issue me a warning letter. I never actually received the warning letter and did a few foia background checks and nothing has come up from it. I did receive a nptrs log from the foia which does mention a heading deviation. Question I have is, on airline applications that ask if you had any administrative action, would this be considered yes?
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Not an answer - as you can see, I can't give one - but a couple of comments.

An "Administrative Action" is not "some action by the administration." It is something specific in the FAA's enforcement toolbox. A "warning notice" is a formal "administrative action." If i did not receive one, I would want to confirm whether there was one issued or not. If it was after 2015, it's just as likely to have been a Compliance Action, which the FAA doesn't consider an "administrative action." So I can't answer because (aside from not giving legal advice online) I don't know what happened.

Are airlines asking for disclosure of "administrative actions" these days? They are not part of PRIA, are expunged after 2 years, and are not considered "violations."

You obviously want to disclose what an application asks for (any exceptions should be on firm legal footing) and both FOIA and privacy waivers can result in non-PRIA events things being found out.
 

Fly2kCovid

New Member
Not an answer - as you can see, I can't give one - but a couple of comments.

An "Administrative Action" is not "some action by the administration." It is something specific in the FAA's enforcement toolbox. A "warning notice" is a formal "administrative action." If i did not receive one, I would want to confirm whether there was one issued or not. If it was after 2015, it's just as likely to have been a Compliance Action, which the FAA doesn't consider an "administrative action." So I can't answer because (aside from not giving legal advice online) I don't know what happened.

Are airlines asking for disclosure of "administrative actions" these days? They are not part of PRIA, are expunged after 2 years, and are not considered "violations."

You obviously want to disclose what an application asks for (any exceptions should be on firm legal footing) and both FOIA and privacy waivers can result in non-PRIA events things being found out.
That is true. It was after 2015. On airline apps there’s a box to check if you had any administrative actions against you. Where can I ask specifically if a warning letter has been issued or not?
 

F9DXER

Well-Known Member
Here is a reminder - When asking the FAA for information about something in your file, just ask for any and all items.

DO NOT ask for information concerning any specific event.

Yes things are suppose to be expunged after 2 years. I almost guarantee a letter from you requesting a copy of your file is not removed. If you asked for a copy of a said event, the actual event may be purged but your letter requesting it may not be. Thus it is possible someone else may find out about that said event.
 

Fly2kCovid

New Member
Here is a reminder - When asking the FAA for information about something in your file, just ask for any and all items.

DO NOT ask for information concerning any specific event.

Yes things are suppose to be expunged after 2 years. I almost guarantee a letter from you requesting a copy of your file is not removed. If you asked for a copy of a said event, the actual event may be purged but your letter requesting it may not be. Thus it is possible someone else may find out about that said event.
Would this be different than requesting a foia of my complete airmen file? Are airlines supposed to get a copy of your nptrs log? I always thought that was private but I got it the past few times when I requested a complete file.
 

Autothrust Blue

Commander Air Group, BSG-75
Yessir.

It's not terribly helpful, because, well, you read that question, and you still scratch your head, because of how it's constructed; plainly, written by someone trying to be as elastic as possible, and not as specific (or even reality-grounded, as you pointed out) as possible.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Would this be different than requesting a foia of my complete airmen file? Are airlines supposed to get a copy of your nptrs log? I always thought that was private but I got it the past few times when I requested a complete file.
It is different. FOIA is subject to exceptions - things which do not have to be disclosed for various legal reasons, some of them involving privacy considerations. Requesting your full file should provide everything. Here's the link. It gives general information with links to the forms to release the record to you or to a third party.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Yessir.

It's not terribly helpful, because, well, you read that question, and you still scratch your head, because of how it's constructed; plainly, written by someone trying to be as elastic as possible, and not as specific (or even reality-grounded, as you pointed out) as possible.
You're right.
 

Autothrust Blue

Commander Air Group, BSG-75
It is different. FOIA is subject to exceptions - things which do not have to be disclosed for various legal reasons, some of them involving privacy considerations. Requesting your full file should provide everything. Here's the link. It gives general information with links to the forms to release the record to you or to a third party.
I have a shirt that says "I heart FOIA."

(it was a gift.)

You're right.
I would not have written the question that way. I would write the usual 7 deadly sins down into various parts as:
  1. To the best of your knowledge, have you ever been the subject of an investigation by the Federal Aviation Administration or an equivalent foreign regulator? For military pilots, [military equivalent]? If yes, explain.
  2. Have you ever received an unsatisfactory evaluation from any training event, civilian or military? If yes, explain.
  3. Have you ever received discipline, been suspended (with or without pay), disqualified from flight status for any reason, or discharged from a former employer? This question does include counseling statements, verbal warnings or off-record coaching. If yes, explain.
(etc.)
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
I have a shirt that says "I heart FOIA."

(it was a gift.)


I would not have written the question that way. I would write the usual 7 deadly sins down into various parts as:
  1. To the best of your knowledge, have you ever been the subject of an investigation by the Federal Aviation Administration or an equivalent foreign regulator? For military pilots, [military equivalent]? If yes, explain.
  2. Have you ever received an unsatisfactory evaluation from any training event, civilian or military? If yes, explain.
  3. Have you ever received discipline, been suspended (with or without pay), disqualified from flight status for any reason, or discharged from a former employer? This question does include counseling statements, verbal warnings or off-record coaching. If yes, explain.
(etc.)
Answer to #2 - too numerous to count during my training before reaching task proficiency.
 
Top