F-16 Training Accident at Holloman (not a crash)

That's the one .
I don't recall seeing evidence of live bombs on that range...but then again, I always drew the short straw for seat meat sorties on 0% illum nights.

That's one tiny postage stamp to be dropping lives on with ground personnel present. I'm assuming the OP is somewhere outside the fire road?
 
First thing you do when you check in with an Army guy, ask him his coordinates before he proceeds with the 9 line


Getting that location depends on the specific unit. Sometimes it can be a lengthy process to figure out where the friendlies are at without BF tracker, AO handoff, etc. If it's ECAS, there's obviously extra items to accomplish.
 
I don't recall seeing evidence of live bombs on that range...but then again, I always drew the short straw for seat meat sorties on 0% illum nights.

That's one tiny postage stamp to be dropping lives on with ground personnel present. I'm assuming the OP is somewhere outside the fire road?

My understanding is the mishap aircrew was assigned to 54th fighter group, an AFRES F-16 training unit. The injured JTAC was assigned to the 7th ASOS at Ft Bliss.

Though the press release says Air to surface munitions, it could be as simple as a strafe, doesn't have to be a bomb. I've never controlled on Red Rios, or even looked at a range book so I don't know if 20mm strafe is authorized.

Lots of factors are in play, which is why I'm interested in reading the actual report once it's complete.
 
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My understanding is the mishap aircrew was assigned to 54th fighter group, an AFRES F-16 training unit. The injured JTAC was assigned to the 7th ASOS at Ft Bliss.

Though the press release says Air to surface munitions, it could be as simple as a strafe, doesn't have to be a bomb. I've never controlled on Red Rios, or even looked at a range book so I don't know if 20mm strafe is authorized.

Lots of factors are in play, which is why I'm interested in reading the actual report once it's complete.
True, I hadn't considered strafing. In either case, I'll just reiterate how small the range is. Maybe 2 miles long and about 1/4 mile wide situated in a shallow east-west valley. Very little room for an error of any kind, from any platform. I'd like to read the report as well.
 
True, I hadn't considered strafing. In either case, I'll just reiterate how small the range is. Maybe 2 miles long and about 1/4 mile wide situated in a shallow east-west valley. Very little room for an error of any kind, from any platform. I'd like to read the report as well.

Like I mentioned, I've bombed on Red Rio, but with training ordnance or heavyweight inerts, never did heavyweight lives and can't remember if they were authorized there. Strafe was always an option, but with strafe, you'd have to be pointed at the known OP location if you are going to hit friendlies, which would be odd i would think. But nothing is an impossibility in these types of incidents.

About 15 years ago, a few of us frome my unit were sitting on OP Red Pointlocated in South TAC on the Barry Goldwater range, for a day and night of working CAS training. Some visiting F-16s from DM showed up with lives, and on the BMGR there's only one place on each SAT range where heavyweight lives can be dropped, known as HE "High Explosive" hill. It looks like (and is) moonscape dust, having been bombed so many times, and has large white arrows at each cardinal direction on the ground, pointing to the hill.....easily seen from the air. At our location, it's well east of us, but still in visual range.

The F-16 flight shows up and checks in, situation update is completed for a high altitude drop, above where we can see them, 9 line is passed, and enhanced talk on is given. Lead confirms everything we describe to him. They're at high altitude in a wide wheel so can hear them but can't see them. They pass their fighter to fighter amongst themselves and call ready. We advise them to call 15 secs out, standard. They call that, we reply with call in with FAC area and target in sight. Lead does, and he's cleared hot. He calls off hot, and watching the target visually nothing happens.....until a high order detonation occurs west of us, outside the range boundary but in desolate desert. Pretty unexpected. All boxes had been checked, all reasonable confirmations done given the limitations of the employment that day, and still the wrong DMPI was IDd.
 
First thing you do when you check in with an Army guy, ask him his coordinates before he proceeds with the 9 line

Problem with that is, the only set of numbers I want to get is that of the target. So there are no other numbers to possibly get confused with. In the 9 line, I should get a notification of where nearest friendlies are from the target coords I was given, if friendlies are a factor. In the remarks, for instance, friendlies 2 klicks SE, no factor.

In medium altitude employment, I should be able to confirm the target with the FAC, visually or with a pod (of course nothing is perfect). With the very challenging low altitude employment and first-attack run-in, I only have the target enhanced description to go by, as the first time I'll be seeing the target by any means, is during the popup from behind terrain to acquire it, with about 5 seconds to ID and roll in, or come off and back to low level and out, if I'm unable to acquire.

Lots of areas for errors that we mitigate as best as possible, but things still happen; both old mistakes that we've always made, as well as new ones with new technology that comes on line.
 
Not the first time, won't be the last; even with new and innovative marking devices and such for targets, and ID devices for friendly locations. In my day as a FAC when doing it on the ground, all I had was VS17 panels, and radios, with old school talk ons to target and everything done by what I could see with the eyeball. Long before Type I/II/II control types. Planes mostly dropping dumb bombs and usually at altitudes where I could confirm their nose position with a "continue" call in between their "in-hot" and my "Cleared hot" calls. Even when they called in with FAC and target in sight, you still triple checked them before clearing weapons expenditures. Who knows what the details were in this particular case, but if the friendly OP was hit, then it's usually between just a few causal factors.
I'm still amazed how much detail you remember about things. Youre just like my cousin, he has super memory. You've got some great genetics man.
 
I'm still amazed how much detail you remember about things. Youre just like my cousin, he has super memory. You've got some great genetics man.

Alot of the events I've encountered in life often feel like they could've been just yesterday, even though they may have been long ago. Kind of weird.
 
Like I mentioned, I've bombed on Red Rio, but with training ordnance or heavyweight inerts, never did heavyweight lives and can't remember if they were authorized there. Strafe was always an option, but with strafe, you'd have to be pointed at the known OP location if you are going to hit friendlies, which would be odd i would think. But nothing is an impossibility in these types of incidents.

About 15 years ago, a few of us frome my unit were sitting on OP Red Pointlocated in South TAC on the Barry Goldwater range, for a day and night of working CAS training. Some visiting F-16s from DM showed up with lives, and on the BMGR there's only one place on each SAT range where heavyweight lives can be dropped, known as HE "High Explosive" hill. It looks like (and is) moonscape dust, having been bombed so many times, and has large white arrows at each cardinal direction on the ground, pointing to the hill.....easily seen from the air. At our location, it's well east of us, but still in visual range.

The F-16 flight shows up and checks in, situation update is completed for a high altitude drop, above where we can see them, 9 line is passed, and enhanced talk on is given. Lead confirms everything we describe to him. They're at high altitude in a wide wheel so can hear them but can't see them. They pass their fighter to fighter amongst themselves and call ready. We advise them to call 15 secs out, standard. They call that, we reply with call in with FAC area and target in sight. Lead does, and he's cleared hot. He calls off hot, and watching the target visually nothing happens.....until a high order detonation occurs west of us, outside the range boundary but in desolate desert. Pretty unexpected. All boxes had been checked, all reasonable confirmations done given the limitations of the employment that day, and still the wrong DMPI was IDd.
I'd be surprised if any live bombs were allowed on Red Rio. With its narrow width, anything from the 500lb family would be fragging outside the fire road. If there are any smaller lives for training, I don't know of them. You might.
 
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