Yes. Practicing instrument approaches is practicing instrument approaches. When doing so in VMC, maintain see and avoid. Without a backseater or a chase plane, can't log it as sim instrument. Nothing unusual.
F-16 midair with small plane in SC
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Yes. Practicing instrument approaches is practicing instrument approaches. When doing so in VMC, maintain see and avoid. Without a backseater or a chase plane, can't log it as sim instrument. Nothing unusual.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Working on IMC skills and IFR skills are two very different things. When doing initial training we normally combine them to save time and what not, but there is no reason they have to be done that way.
This from a commercial UAV group I know. They are assisting with identification and recovery efforts. The "P2V+" is a DJI Phantom 2 Vision Plus. They gave permission to share on this forum.
An absolutely surreal day. We were greeted at HQ at 7:30a and upon our arrival, the coroner incident command) called us to get onsite right away. Escorted in a convoy to the crash site, we were surrounded by Sheriff, DNR, NTSB, Red Cross, and others.
Upon our arrival, we met with a number of authorities and informed them of our capabilities. They were tremendously interested in the orthomosaic mapping and led us to an area of interest: an old rice paddy in 6 feet of water.
We set our mission over the rice field using just a P2V+ and flew the autonomous mission in 5 minutes. All photos were stitched in the cloud and close examination revealed many pieces of wreckage under water (we were able to see to the bottom). We handed the images to the North Charleston PD dive team and moved to a second and then third location to map.
Upon our completion of the third location (our 7th mission) we packed up and started walking the woods to help map the debris field under the forest canopy with the NTSB team. We then returned to the rice paddy and learned that our map was already being used by the dive team to recover the sections we discovered from above.
There are of course other occurrences and items we found that I wish I had not witnessed but we half expected it. The day was very surreal and I felt I wad on the verge of crying throughout. One of my partners, Tom Lucey and I are hot, dehydrated, and deeply humbled by the loss of life that occurred yesterday. But at least we feel gratitude for the time we donated to the recovery efforts in our home county. Jets some photos that I feel I can share.
An absolutely surreal day. We were greeted at HQ at 7:30a and upon our arrival, the coroner incident command) called us to get onsite right away. Escorted in a convoy to the crash site, we were surrounded by Sheriff, DNR, NTSB, Red Cross, and others.
Upon our arrival, we met with a number of authorities and informed them of our capabilities. They were tremendously interested in the orthomosaic mapping and led us to an area of interest: an old rice paddy in 6 feet of water.
We set our mission over the rice field using just a P2V+ and flew the autonomous mission in 5 minutes. All photos were stitched in the cloud and close examination revealed many pieces of wreckage under water (we were able to see to the bottom). We handed the images to the North Charleston PD dive team and moved to a second and then third location to map.
Upon our completion of the third location (our 7th mission) we packed up and started walking the woods to help map the debris field under the forest canopy with the NTSB team. We then returned to the rice paddy and learned that our map was already being used by the dive team to recover the sections we discovered from above.
There are of course other occurrences and items we found that I wish I had not witnessed but we half expected it. The day was very surreal and I felt I wad on the verge of crying throughout. One of my partners, Tom Lucey and I are hot, dehydrated, and deeply humbled by the loss of life that occurred yesterday. But at least we feel gratitude for the time we donated to the recovery efforts in our home county. Jets some photos that I feel I can share.
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
Mode C is always on, same as any other aircraft.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Even when we are in a MOA or Restricted Area, we're still squawking a discrete code and Mode C.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
How does a single person practice an instrument approach? By definition that is a heads down maneuver. In IMC is one thing but in VFR condition us GA guys need a safety pilot while the practice guy is under foggles/hood. How does it work for the military?
///AMG
Well-Known Member
you don't use a hood, and at least in most fighters, there is normally a HUD so it is not really "heads down".....its no different to me whether IMC or VMC really
Not by definition. You can maintain VMC and still reference an nav instrument of some kind....and fly an approach.
By yourself though, it cannot be logged as simulated instrument, because of no safety pilot or safety non-pilot crewmember.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
You are talking about practicing IMC approaches. There is no relationship between IFR procedures and flight solely by reference to instruments. In the civilian world we train that way because because we are checked that way, but nothing says you have to.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
If you are single and heads down for a practice instrument approach the whole time in VMC, who is looking out the window?
In the GA world we need a safety pilot to legally do this and log it.
In the GA world we need a safety pilot to legally do this and log it.
Springer
Well-Known Member
Interesting that you are cleared to fly below 500' AGL anywhere. I flew Recce F-4's and we were limited to 500' unless in a restricted area (think Red Flag @Nellis) and then we were cleared to 100' AGL.
ryan1234
Desensitized Member
We are squawking Mode S as well, some countries it's a bigger deal than others.
ryan1234
Desensitized Member
Can't really speak to a Herc, but the Strike Eagle ops squadrons range from a LOWAT of 300' to 500' depending on what base you're at. I believe the guys at Nellis are good to 100' ... The 500' at 450 KIAS to 520 KIAS is no big deal in the day time, but at night with NVGs on TF only through the mountains, it's a little sporty.
Springer
Well-Known Member
Now that is scary! We had TF (same as F-111) but was not coupled to the autopilot but wisely the Wing limited us to 1000' AGL. No NVG in those days.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Still looking for answer on this. Who's watching outside ig you are doing practice instrument approaches? In GA we have a safety pilot. I've NEVER done a practice instrument approach heads down without a safety pilot (CFI).
The #1 avoidance for midairs (according to the FAA and NTSB) in VMC is see-and-avoid. So how could this F16 see and avoIf if he's heads down and no one is looking outside?
RDoug
Well-Known Member
oooOOOooo. Did someone just mention one of my favorite aircraft, the F-111? I am so hot right now.
CC, I've already explained this over and over. It's called multitasking. Referencing instruments is not flying solely by instruments. That is why you can't log it. Make sense?
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
There are a couple things to realize here:
- Military pilots don't fly under FAA rules, they fly under USAF, USN, etc rules. Those rules are negotiated with the FAA, but are in many ways different than what's in the CFR. You can't apply civilian flight rules to military operations. Some of the things that are legal in the military rules would blow the minds of many civilian guys...like regaining instrument currency in a single-seat jet with your instructor flying in a different aircraft in formation with you, also in a single-seat jet.
- In a military fighter (at least the F-15E, F-16, and AT-38, that I have experience in), the pilot is looking through the HUD, where the instrument and flight instrumentation is displayed, so he isn't head's down during the approach. All of the same information you'd expect to see in an HSI, you can see in the HUD instrument mode.
- USAF fighter pilots have requirements for "instrument sorties" (where the purpose of the flight is to practice instruments) for currency, as well as "instrument approach" currency, and they are not the same thing.
Yes, they're still required to see and avoid, just like always. Amazingly, you can actually split your time between looking at the instruments in the cockpit and also looking outside and clearing for traffic. This is what fighter guys do every day, weather flying an instrument approach or not.
Springer
Well-Known Member
Ugh! Why would you want to sit next to your WSO and have to fly formation x-cockpit? Correct me if I am wrong but I don't even think you can do a loop in that bomber.