F-16 midair with small plane in SC

Look outside in a critical phase of flight?
BobDDuck said:
Ha. Well played. I was going to go with NFL, but I think yours is more universal.
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Goodell gives out a 12 game suspension! Eat it!

Look inside during critical phase of flight?

Goodell gives 30 game suspension, reduced to 8 games with 5m fine and loss of first round draft pick! Shield protected!
 
BobDDuck said:
Hmmm... Nope. YOU hear draft and think Vietnam. Other people hear it and think other things.
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I'm curious: what do you think? Because I certainly think about Vietnam, and we're of the same generation. I doubt anyone under the age of 70 would think of a different conflict.
 
ppragman said:
I think of WWII, Korea, and Vietnam personally. But mostly the Second World War.
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Interesting. My mind would never go there. Perhaps because my father joined the military during Vietnam, so that just jumps to mind immediately when hearing "draft." He joined the Navy specifically to avoid getting drafted into the Army.
 
00076VDT21.PDF
 
So the facts are in. The Cessna did have an operating transponder. A TCAS II unit on the F-16 almost certainly would have prevented this accident, then. A requirement for the Cessna to be in contact with ATC also would have likely prevented this accident. Two things that should be changed, but won't be because money trumps safety for both the military and AOPA. Sad.
 
At 1100:18, the controller advised the pilot of the F-16, "traffic 12 o'clock, 2 miles, opposite direction, 1,200 [feet altitude] indicated, type unknown." The F-16 pilot responded and advised the controller that he was "looking" for the traffic. At 1100:26, the controller advised the F-16 pilot, "turn left heading 180 if you don't have that traffic in sight." The pilot responded by asking, "confirm 2 miles?" Eight seconds later, the controller stated, "if you don't have that traffic in sight turn left heading 180 immediately." Over the next 18 seconds, the track of the F-16 began turning southerly.
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There you have it. If you don't have it in sight, turn left heading 180. 2 miles he asks? Then 8 seconds later, if you don't have it, turn immediately! Then after a short delay he then finally starts turning to the south heading of 180 deg. Intentional delay from an ATC instruction. Negligence.
 
Yeah, I saw that, too. I put more emphasis on the tech, as human nature leads to delay unless a computer is screaming "CLIMB, CLIMB, CLIMB" at you. Has a lot more urgency to it.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Yeah, I saw that, too. I put more emphasis on the tech, as human nature leads to delay unless a computer is screaming "CLIMB, CLIMB, CLIMB" at you. Has a lot more urgency to it.
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That's true. The negligence comment was harsh, and you are right in this case. Still, at least it puts to rest the other theory that this was some Cessna 150 without a transponder and that the F16 guy had no warning/clue when it happened.
 
personally I think it's just a highly unfortunate accident of two airplanes in the big sky at the same place at the same time. Don't think you can place blame on one side. In my opinion, it's just like any other accident--lots of small things leading up to an accident.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
There you have it. If you don't have it in sight, turn left heading 180. 2 miles he asks? Then 8 seconds later, if you don't have it, turn immediately! Then after a short delay he then finally starts turning to the south heading of 180 deg. Intentional delay from an ATC instruction. Negligence.
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Don't you think you're jumping the gun a bit here? In a single engine airplane flying 300kias there is a lot going on. Who know if he heard the full instruction the first time? (That was a non standard ATC call) Who knows if something didn't happen in the jet that took his attention away for a moment? Who knows if he thought he had the target insight than realized it wasn't it? I would say negligent is pretty arrogant and presumptuous of you. While we are talking about negligence however, would you say the GA guys were negligent in climbing through every final approach fix altitude for a busy dual mil/civ airport without talking to anyone? Was the controller negligent in decending him to 1,600 so far out? Is the Air Force negligent in not installing TCAS on F-16s? I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
 
Between the Monks airport, James Island and Mt pleasants fields, we all takeoff and land in the path of CHS. 1500 foot 20 miles out is below the MSA and i would assume below MVA. Does a MTR need to be at or above and airspaces MVA? NO idea, i know jack about MTAs

Do wish the F16 had turned a little quicker or not at all.
 
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