Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Ehh, this feels like a pretty handwaving way to dismiss the fact that the losses of aircraft and equipment are pretty high for this not being a war...
F-15E shot down over Iran
- Thread starter mikecweb
- Start date
Ehh, this feels like a pretty handwaving way to dismiss the fact that the losses of aircraft and equipment are pretty high for this not being a war...
Am talking the operational technicals, not the politics. There’s another thread for that. There’s shooting, it’s combat. War,
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
I am not making it political either. This is not a war, war was not declared. This conflict, operation, or whatever you want to call it, has had a serious loss of aircraft. Simply listing other wars and conflicts doesn't really excuse the current state of air superiority over the Middle East right now.
War: a state of armed conflict between nations or groups, generally defined. And different than a declaration of war.
Semantics aside, it’s combat. And in near-peer combat, warfare, conflict, whatever you’d like to call it, where there’s actually an equipped and trained foe, nothing is going to be a cakewalk.
Now, if you are arguing that proactive preparations and contingencies weren’t taken into account or might have been sloppy, such as the lack of force protection at an airbase where HVAA aircraft were needlessly damaged/destroyed out in the open not once, but twice, at the exact same location; there is definitely some mail that needs to be answered on that failure.
Any reason for the radio silence? It’s been 24 hours and nothing. Is the missing pilot still hiding and waiting to be rescued or is he possibly deceased and nobody can find him. With social media these days if he was taken by locals or by the Iranian military wouldn’t we have seen the pictures and videos posted everywhere?
///AMG
Well-Known Member
I'd guess because there is no news. If they haven't captured the person yet, I'd imagine a follow-on CSAR effort is being planned or underway. I think if they knew they'd not survived, that would have been released. As you can probably imagine, OPSEC would be a pretty huge issue right now if the guy/gal is still on the ground evading. That alone might be the reason there is radio silence.
I know you guys train for this stuff but man if he’s alive and still evading that must be some intense evading.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Hide by day, move by night, allow search to disperse, allow CSAR time for misdirection. Stay hidden, stay hydrated are the keys.
Skåning
Well-Known Member
Or maybe even a small chance of finding friendly or sympathetic locals. When I had a layover in Iran a couple years ago the people were very nice, but we also weren’t bombing them at the time.
I can’t imagine what that guy/gal is going through. Do you guys carry a beacon or locator on the body?
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Pretty sophisticated radio with features to reduce chances of detection. I hope the missing crewman is alive, not captured, and able to put it to use.
An A-10 was taken down, pilot able to get it to friendly territory before having to bail out.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
I’m not seeing that anywhere, just the F-15E and A-10. Any link?
///AMG
Well-Known Member
They lost an A-10 and an HH-60 from the sounds of it. Both would have been directly involved in the CSAR/recovery mission. It appears the A-10 made it to Kuwait before a controlled ejection, and the -60 crash landed where its crew was rescued, likely by another -60. I think this all just highlights how high risk this mission was. Regardless of the official position, the Iranians have a bazillion MANPADs and light/med/heavy caliber guns that we most certainly couldn't have destroyed (since they are small, mobile, not tracked in any way). These guys were operating in broad daylight at low altitude. Right in the heart of where all those things can touch you, especially slower moving aircraft like all of the CSAR force. They knew how risky it was, and went anyway. Anyone who knows anything about this could tell you there would likely be losses. It is a testament to their training, preparation, and professionalism that it seems everyone made it out, other than perhaps one of the original strike eagle crew members.
ppragman
No pasa nada.
Something I was thinking about last night, but I bet the Russians and Chinese have been absolutely flooding the Iranians with MANPADs since the start of the war. I mean, I'm not a mil guy, but it's what I would do. If the big geopolitical enemy went to war with another country I would give them all the assistance I could without stepping in if only to test out the equipment I have. It has probably taken them 30 days or so to even get a sufficient amount of MANPADs into the country to make it painful for us. Then the Iranians had to decide where they can be dangerous. I won't be surprised if we don't see further airplanes shot down, then eventually further escalation because it's good for China and Russia if we're bogged down in this. Karl Vilson's war instead of Charlie Wilson.
Day CSAR has always been highly risky. We always planned for it as an opportunity arises or timing demands, decision matrix for going in daytime versus night time for making a pickup when we were deployed down range on CSAR duty. Especially in areas like this where there’s not a ton of low/contour terrain masking in all ingress/egress routes to speak of. Ground fire always has, and always will, have the advantage over you as an air asset when you are operating inside their WEZ. Sometimes you have to.