F-104

[Cal Goat]

I think it was an interesting jet for sure. I have the new Osprey series in which throughout the book, the author states that it was great fighter. My question is, if it were a great fighter, then why didn't it fight great? No really a fair comment, I don't know how well it did in daily BFM, intercepts, etc but in combat, it didn't do well. For us, 0-1, with the Pakistani's it was defeated by the MiG-21 on 3 or 4 engagements, went 2-1 with Taiwan, etc. My guess is it wasn't used as it was supposed to be used.

I've read about every book available on the 104, including that recent Osprey one. All I can really figure is that it was anachronistic philosophy pretty early in its life. The USAF never really deployed it in any true sense where its strengths could be exploited. The Pakis were using it to chase Gnats down below the hilltops mostly.

I think it's a beautiful machine, and truly one of my favorite airplanes as far simplicity and purity of design. But, no, not a great fighter. Acceleration, as the OP states, was its one amazing virtue.

Interesting though that it was so commercially successful and had a very long service life. I met an Italian pilot who flew the S variant in the Balkans conflict for recon missions. Not bad for a 1950s design.

 

[Hacker15e]

True story, the 1950s-era U-2 is a Starfighter fuselage (there have been some changes in the intervening 60 years).

Sort of.

The prototype design started with a 104 fuselage (even with a T-tail), but by the time it was actually a production U-2A, it was no longer.

It is most noticeable in the fuselage shape aft of the wing. On the 104, the whole empennage has a very beautiful slight upsweep from the trailing edge of the wing to the burner can. On the Deuce, it basically goes straight aft.

The current-use U-2S aircraft are a completely different fuselage and wing all together.

 

[///AMG]

View attachment 30333

The Genie was hilariously unsafe in terms of safeguards against unintended kaboom.

Fun Fact: Every time the missile flew on an W-mobile it violated the Two-Man Rule.

Random Q for anyone that knows.....did the -106 ever get a more modern air-to-air weapon towards the end of its career? I'm fairly certain that they were standing ANG duty into the early 1980's, which I'd guess/hope was well after the retirement of the Genie....

 

[MikeD]

Random Q for anyone that knows.....did the -106 ever get a more modern air-to-air weapon towards the end of its career? I'm fairly certain that they were standing ANG duty into the early 1980's, which I'd guess/hope was well after the retirement of the Genie....

Late '80s they were retired, last ones out of Atlantic City, NJ ANG, if I remember right. No, they never got anything beyond the AIM-4 Falcon, and they rarely carried the Genie. However they did get an M61 20mm cannon mounted on centerline fuselage.

 

[///AMG]

i guess it just always intrigues me how analog and dated the early 80's were in terms of technology......I feel pretty young, but the place we were at in early 1983 when I was born....man, that was a different place. One of the coldest parts of the cold war, and I guess being a mil guy it is just interesting to think how dated our stuff back then was......like more similar to 1960 than even 1990.

And maybe that is even a weird benchmark. Dudes were still rolling in with GP bombs and no pods in OIF I/2003. Crazy how much we take for granted these days. I'm sure you saw both sides. BTW congrats on the promotion, sir

 

[Lawman]

i guess it just always intrigues me how analog and dated the early 80's were in terms of technology......I feel pretty young, but the place we were at in early 1983 when I was born....man, that was a different place. One of the coldest parts of the cold war, and I guess being a mil guy it is just interesting to think how dated our stuff back then was......like more similar to 1960 than even 1990.

And maybe that is even a weird benchmark. Dudes were still rolling in with GP bombs and no pods in OIF I/2003. Crazy how much we take for granted these days. I'm sure you saw both sides. BTW congrats on the promotion, sir

In many ways the 80/90s revolution in avionics and processing power were very similar to the late 50s/early60s jet designs where aerodynamic knowledge renders designs obsolete before they even hit front line service. In the same way we were f'ing with swept wings and variable geometry trying to figure out the modern jet fighter you have radars, flight control systems, and weapons processors/sensors literally leap frogging their competitors.

 

[knot4u]

In many ways the 80/90s revolution in avionics and processing power were very similar to the late 50s/early60s jet designs where aerodynamic knowledge renders designs obsolete before they even hit front line service. In the same way we were f'ing with swept wings and variable geometry trying to figure out the modern jet fighter you have radars, flight control systems, and weapons processors/sensors literally leap frogging their competitors.

This rings true for many aspects of aviation, swept wing or not.