ExpressJet to fly for Frontier...
- Thread starter Captain_Bob
- Start date
JBUCREW
Well-Known Member
Nobody is "bagging"(is that even a word?)... anyway man many of us have been in the same shoes as far as a regional starting branded flying and we have seen first hand what happens... I just think that in a year we will be right back to this same thread and XJT's branded flying will be struggling if not almost gone.... now again thats just my 2 cents, just like you saying that you think it will be alive and doing well.... that being said I hope I am wrong, no other pilots really want to see anyone out of the job (except maybe GoJet :buck
.... I say it again 50 seat jets dont make money.... later
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
You were at ACA right? I feel bad for what happened to you guys.
But straight up your managment dropped the freaking ball. They planned on getting A320's faster than they could get them and were killed by the costs of expensive 50 seat CRJ's when they had planned on more fuel efficient larger aircraft. I should also note that FlyI transitioned their ENTIRE operation over to their own flying.
ExpressJet is using 40 airplanes for branded out of 274. That's less than 25% of the fleet being used for branded flying. 75% of the flying, and 75% of the income is STILL coming from CAL and will continue to for a while. And if CAL doesn't want Express in a year and a half? Delta does.
And I'll say it again, why does Express have almost $300 million in CASH in the bank when 50 seaters don't make money? All you're doing is repeating the party line of "50 seat RJ's don't make money, ever, you can't, it's impossible" without backing it up with any metrics. I'm backing it up with saying my company has made cold hard cash money and put it in the bank with 50 seaters while having an industry leading contract.
The management groups you have worked for seem to inept at best, and downright criminal at worst.
But straight up your managment dropped the freaking ball. They planned on getting A320's faster than they could get them and were killed by the costs of expensive 50 seat CRJ's when they had planned on more fuel efficient larger aircraft. I should also note that FlyI transitioned their ENTIRE operation over to their own flying.
ExpressJet is using 40 airplanes for branded out of 274. That's less than 25% of the fleet being used for branded flying. 75% of the flying, and 75% of the income is STILL coming from CAL and will continue to for a while. And if CAL doesn't want Express in a year and a half? Delta does.
And I'll say it again, why does Express have almost $300 million in CASH in the bank when 50 seaters don't make money? All you're doing is repeating the party line of "50 seat RJ's don't make money, ever, you can't, it's impossible" without backing it up with any metrics. I'm backing it up with saying my company has made cold hard cash money and put it in the bank with 50 seaters while having an industry leading contract.
The management groups you have worked for seem to inept at best, and downright criminal at worst.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
We actually only have 36 or 37 on branded now according to JR. 3 or 4 more went to LA under the Delta banner.
Our biggest challenge is not finding customers but rather circumnavigating the contract stipulations set forth in our agreement with CAL.
SmitteyB
Well-Known Member
A few incorrect statements here.
First of all you're contract is not industry leading. Air Wisconsin and soon to be ASA have you beat.
Independence Air had A319's.
And Cash Available to XJT right now is $193 million according to CNN this morning. Stockholders are jumping ship. I really don't know what to do with my 2500 shares.
The company hasn't really come out with much information about the branded stuff. Is it making money? The $26 million lost last quarter they attirbuted to start up costs.
While most on Wall Street think XJT is headed for Ch. 7, I don't and I'll probably hold onto my stock.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Indy had TWO Airbus' as I understand it.
People have been yelling and screaming about how Express has been a sinking ship since CAL dropped the 69 aircraft. The company hasn't disapeared yet and I don't expect it to anytime soon.
And if Express does go chapter 7? Oh well, it happens, but at least the company tried something new to make things work instead of slowing dying at CAL's hand like they were going to do when they got spun off.
And you know what? CAL CAN'T lose Express right now. If they had a 274 plane hole in their fleet CAL's route structure would collapse. CAL ALPA won't let the 50 seat scope clause go and nobody is making 50 seaters anymore. CAL is, for better or worse, stuck with us and that means that we'll continue to make money off them.
People have been yelling and screaming about how Express has been a sinking ship since CAL dropped the 69 aircraft. The company hasn't disapeared yet and I don't expect it to anytime soon.
And if Express does go chapter 7? Oh well, it happens, but at least the company tried something new to make things work instead of slowing dying at CAL's hand like they were going to do when they got spun off.
And you know what? CAL CAN'T lose Express right now. If they had a 274 plane hole in their fleet CAL's route structure would collapse. CAL ALPA won't let the 50 seat scope clause go and nobody is making 50 seaters anymore. CAL is, for better or worse, stuck with us and that means that we'll continue to make money off them.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
That's true. If we were not under those stipulations we'd be in much better shape, though to be honest I think CAL would much prefer to control us by taking 274/2+1 aircraft so we have to continue to service them as they please.
Baronman
Well-Known Member
Have you beat? What does that mean?
I'm making as a Capt at XJT more than the Wisky guys, just looking at both the pay and per-diem.
Next...Our contract was from back in 2004. HELLO?! Yes, contracts negotiated now should build upon our contract. I guess everyone has become accustomed to taking mediocre contracts (took keep management happy...and get more big planes) but the idea is to keep doing better.
Finally...ASA's TA isn't as ground breaking as you may think. Our contract was amended within the last year, adding pay rates for 2008 and 2009 (originally was through '07).
Just a quick look shows that our pay
3rd year Capt in 2008 = $67.25
5th year Capt in 2008= $71.33
1st year FO in 2008 = $23.79
3rd year FO in 2008 = $37.61
The ASA -70 seat rates don't even get up into the 70 dollar range for a while.
I know there are many quality of life things in the ASA TA, commuter clause etc...But to say that this TA is industry leading? Not really...And I think those guys will find themselves in a year or two wondering why they didn't try to get more.
SmitteyB
Well-Known Member
Personally and I think you agree- Pay is not everything in a contract. Trip and duty rigs are very nice and just simple work rule clauses are the little things that make a contract industry leading.
Once again, like everything on JC- it's just my opinion. Don't think that I'm saying your company is junk because it's not you have an extremely capable CEO and great employees with a quality product. That's why I support your company with my money. But to see my stock falling most everyday since "XJET" started, it's quite uneasy.
Baronman
Well-Known Member
I agree pay is not everything in a contract, I think we've said it a million times with our own, for the most part we feel we have a very good contract (pay, work rules etc). But I was calling you out on saying that ASA now has an industry leading contract, I think the duty rigs etc is industry leading. The pay is not, and pay is of course probably the #1 thing to consider in a contract all things considered. This is just a big improvement over what they have.
And shame on you for buying airline stock..
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
There is no basis for this assumption. "Soon" is a word used to predict the future which you can not. ASA's contract does not top XJT's. I've spoken with one of the union's chair at ASA before the contract was even announced publically with respect to the differences. XJT's pay and work rules are still superior.
Yes they did. Ordered as a last ditch effort. They closed with 12 A319's on the property.
Wrong again. Read Morgan Stanley's second quarter analysis and you'll see they ended the second quarter with $280 million in cash and $14 million in restricted cash.
I doubt XJT is headed for Chapter 7. The CAL and Delta flying equates to 83% of flying and provides a positive cash situation. Branded load factors have been superior to estimates - 65% for the last two months. More aircraft were recently added to Delta, a short term agreement with Frontier, a new charter agreement with Virgin, and rumors of CAL needing more aircraft from XJT as they terminated 69 only to recapture 44 with RAH leaving a void of 25 aircraft. Rumors have been flinging that CAL will seek another 20 XR's under a seperate agreement, although the proof is only in the pudding.
This in no way resembles ACAI (FlyI). Things could get worse or could get better. Welcome to the regional airline world. USAir could drop or reduced AWAC's flying overnight sending them out of business. ASA could also be reduced heavily overnight should Delta decide to give more flying to another carrier out of ATL. Delta already closed their LAX base and gave it to XJT.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
My personal belief is these payrates will freeze if XJT can not stop the losses in the next year.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
I've made thousands trading airlines stocks. Skywest and most recently Pinnacle which I might mention I am up 20% on.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I don't think XJT is headed for CH 7, but mentioning the fact that they have $$$ in the bank and the branded flying together is misleading. Odds are that $$$ in the bank didn't come from branded, it came from contract flying with either CAL, Delta, jetBlue or Frontier. Using that cash to keep branded flying routes that are losing money alive is a poor business decision, and one I would imagine Ream and Co would opt NOT to take.
I still say until they figure out which branded routes are gonna work and which need to be cut loose, losing ANY planes from ANY carrier isn't a good thing. The branded flying could work, but not until they get a good customer based and figure out which routes need to go and which routes to increase service on. Until then, they need the contract flying as a lifeline.
I still say until they figure out which branded routes are gonna work and which need to be cut loose, losing ANY planes from ANY carrier isn't a good thing. The branded flying could work, but not until they get a good customer based and figure out which routes need to go and which routes to increase service on. Until then, they need the contract flying as a lifeline.
JBUCREW
Well-Known Member
1st we have 12 A319's on when we went down.... 2nd I'm jumping on the 50 seaters dont work bandwagon... I have backed up what I said about 50 seaters in a couple of other threads and Im not gonna re-type it.
I will say this again... You make money on contract flying NOT BRANDED (or at least so far). You posted a 20 or so million dollor loss with Branded being to blame. I know they stated it was for start-up cost but both Midway and Indy said the samething. Indy did go all in up front and Express didn't, but I have also said that before too...
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Disreguard, missed the last sentence!
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
JBUCREW, do some homework before you spout off inaccurate or biased facts.
Can you read a balance sheet? Nearly $7 million was lost as a result of the arbitration results from with respect to CAL. Millions more were paid in legal fees. Training alone cost the company several million in the second quarter. Costs associated with 2007 rates were being reimbursed at 2006 scales. The loss was attributed to branded but on a much smaller scale. The Q2 earnings call clearly addressed if you take away the arbitration payments, legal fees, back log of '07 expenses at '06 rates and the lost would've been minimal with positive cash flow.
XJT's balance sheet is as healthy today as any other regional.