Exiting a runway on to the active runway

[daveatc]

Your clarification is my intention. Still...If I'm cleared to taxi to a runway...I'm cleared to cross everything enroute to that runway...unless restrictions are given by ATC. Active/non-active are not terms used in this matter.

You are correct. 'Taxi to Rwy .....' gives you the right to cross any and all runways/taxiways EXCEPT the Runway you are instructed to taxi to. Active, inactive, taxiways, all fair game.

I don't know why a controller would tell someone to hold short of the runway they're assigned. That does two bad things. Forces you to have to say 'holding short,' and also could get you in the habit of NOT holding short since you weren't told to previously. This may seem silly to some of the more experienced drivers here, but to someone with less time under their belt, it might not seem that out of reason.

 

[daveatc]

I think it all depends on the airport you're at. I once asked a tower controller at my local airport the same thing, and he said that if they tell a pilot to "turn left when able" then that would include a runway.

No, they are improperly applying the reg. Honestly, if they did that in front of an evaluator, they'd get popped for it. Talk to the FAA evaluators. If they want to make that runway available to you, they have to specify permission to taxi on that runway, not just say 'left turn when able.' Again, you do it at your home airport because lazy controllers say it's okay. You then fly to my airport and do it and I am using that runway and you kill someone. That's what can happen, and that's why the procedure is in place to require a positive control of actually putting that plane on another runway instead of a taxiway. It is flat out wrong and the controller who said that to you is wrong.

"Left turn when able, taxi on RWY18L pilot's discretion." Something that specifically addresses that runway. Look at how runways are handled in the ATC environment. All the hold shorts. All the positive control. All the readbacks. They are in place for a reason. Runway Incursions are a HUGE issue. HUGE training issue. We do tons of training on how to prevent them. If you have such a desire to take that turn onto another RWY, just ask on roll out, "Can I taxi via RWY34?"

And DE727UPS, in regards to the Land and Hold Short (LAHSO) you mentioned, you can't always do that. There are a lot of requirements that have to be met, in terms of airfield markings, training for controllers, LOAs, etc to allow that operation. It doesn't exist by default at airfields. Personally, I'd rather have you roll through it and come out on the other side rather than roll the dice and try to get you to hold short, it's wet, you miss it, etc, etc. There are ways around it, like once you're established on roll out, I can say 'continue taxiing, hold short of runway 18R,' but that is a really fine line there that I'd only use in very rare circumstances, if at all.

 

[B767Driver]

DaveATC,

I think it's just important to clarify...that after landing...when ATC says " turn right when able..." this is not authorization to exit onto a runway. This is somewhat confusing and probably worth reiterating. For the pilot to exit onto a runway...the runway must be specifically stated. Is this correct?

Thx.

Edit: I think you just did on your above post. Thanks for your time and effort.

 

[vheissu]

I disagree. If you combine your statement and UPS's statement I would agree.
My understanding is a "taxi to" clearance authorizes you to cross any runway EXCEPT the runway mentioned in the clearance. It's in the AIM somewhere, maybe someone can find it and point it out.

Maybe you meant this (inferred by saying "enroute to your assigned runway) but I just wanted to clarify for the benefit of others.

A good example is CHS (diagram below). Starting out at the terminal (A) taxing to runway 15 (B), ground typically says "taxi to runway 15". That's it. There is one controller who reiterates "taxi to runway 15, hold short of runway 15" but just one. I've put arrows where you would cross 15/33, it would be the pilots' job to hold short of that runway regardless if a hold short is issued or not.

Just to be 100% clear on this. When getting your instructions to taxi to 15 you would get on alpha taxiway, and HOLD SHORT RWY 15 before getting a clearance to cross the runway and continue your taxi, and the same for the other crossing across RWY 15?? Just want to be sure about something this important...

 

[wheelsup]

Just to be 100% clear on this. When getting your instructions to taxi to 15 you would get on alpha taxiway, and HOLD SHORT RWY 15 before getting a clearance to cross the runway and continue your taxi, and the same for the other crossing across RWY 15?? Just want to be sure about something this important...

you got it!

It's a weird situation because of the restricted area on the west side of the field (it's not often that you have to cross your runway prior to getting there), but perfectly illustrates the whole "taxi to XX" situation and how important it is to know where you're going and understand what the AIM says about stuff like this!

 

[mbtrebbe]

And DE727UPS, in regards to the Land and Hold Short (LAHSO) you mentioned, you can't always do that. There are a lot of requirements that have to be met, in terms of airfield markings, training for controllers, LOAs, etc to allow that operation. It doesn't exist by default at airfields. Personally, I'd rather have you roll through it and come out on the other side rather than roll the dice and try to get you to hold short, it's wet, you miss it, etc, etc. There are ways around it, like once you're established on roll out, I can say 'continue taxiing, hold short of runway 18R,' but that is a really fine line there that I'd only use in very rare circumstances, if at all.

as per our op specs we arent allowed to conduct LAHSO

 

[mbtrebbe]

and i also agree on the reverse high speed. I was in vegas the other day and he said make a right when able contact ground. i figured i wasnt goin very fast and the next taxiway as a bit up, the reverse high speed points me at the FBO, cool. I guess not cool. lol. He said "well, i thought you were gonna exit at XX but i guess since you are there turn right on XXX taxi via XX and XX to atlantic. you can always ask when you are on the roll out too. Can i make a right onto 17 or somethin like that