Exemption 3585

dflyboy

dflyboy

Well-Known Member
my class date is in 2 weeks and I'm trying to wrap my head around the exemption 3585... Any help/suggestions?
 
dflyboy said:
my class date is in 2 weeks and I'm trying to wrap my head around the exemption 3585... Any help/suggestions?
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First Officer??? Newbie or upgrade? And if a newbie do not worry about this.... It is one of the least of your worries.
 
It's the People Express Exemption.

Just memorize what ever answer they give you in indoc and then find a handy cheat sheet (I'm sure most line captains have one) to use to check the weather. It's annoying complex and kind of stupid.

What it boils down to is a way to ignore conditional (becoming, tempo etc) statements in a TAF if you have a second alternate. It's a real mess and in actually operations I've only been dispatched under it a handful of times.
 
Short version, Allows you to be dispatched when the weather at your destination may be below minimums.

If a conditional statement in your taf (Probo, tempo, BCMG) is calling for ceiling or visability below the lowest approach, you may still be dispatched, but require a second alternate. ( Main body for that time period can not be below mins though)

the weather at the 1st Alternate must be at or above the derived minimums for ceiling or visability, at the second alternate, it must be at minimums established for filing as an alternate.

alternate minimums are derived by the number of approaches, and type.

If you are coming to the NE saab routes at colgan, you will use it. prob. lots.. and then it becomes easy.
 
Get CAT II. Then you forget about 3585 until you have a plane with the CAT II deferred. Then you have to look it up. :)
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
Short version, Allows you to be dispatched when the forecast weather at your destination or your first alternate may be below minimums, but you have a reasonable expectation of getting in.

If a conditional statement in your taf (Probo, tempo, BCMG) is calling for ceiling or visability below the lowest approach, you may still be dispatched, but require a second alternate. ( Main body for that time period can not be below mins though), and the conditional language may not be less than 1/2 of the required landing minimum, or not less than 1/2 of the alternate minimums derived using the one navaid and two navaid rules.
the weather at the 1st Alternate must be at or above the derived minimums for ceiling or visability, (this is false), at the second alternate, it must be at minimums established for filing as an alternate.

alternate minimums are derived by the number of approaches, and type.

If you are coming to the NE saab routes at colgan, you will use it. prob. lots.. and then it becomes easy.
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Fixed a few things...
Just trying to help. Oh, and the BECMG group is a MAIN body element, not a conditional remark. If it were still used in the US, it couldn't be used for 3585. Also, PROBS aren't coded in the first 9 hours of a TAF anymore in the US - so the likelihood of using 3585 domestically on a PROB group is slim to none.
 
What BobDuck said memorize the answer they give you in class. As a FO the guy in the left seat is responsible for that.
 
Soul Brotha' said:
What BobDuck said memorize the answer they give you in class. As a FO the guy in the left seat is responsible for that.
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How do you know when the CA makes a mistake?

When I used to teach this in school, I found a way to draw it. However, since I'm technologically impaired, I'm not sure if I can reproduce it on the computer. When I'm on my next trip, I'll give it a try.
 
Well, everyone but me is napping in the house, so I made some productive time.

So I've attached a drawing that is based off my recollection of 3585 exemption, and made in a worst case scenario. I like to base the scenario with a destination of LGA and alternates of JFK and EWR, as they are about equidistant.

We'll just avoid the entire operator-defined "marginal" conditions that require a second alternate.

If I got something incorrect, let me know, and we'll fix it.

Cheers and beers.
 

Attachments

I updated the .pdf, but too late to edit the post.

I forgot that the conditional portions of the forecast can be an AND/OR statement. Either the destination OR first alternate can have the conditional remark, or the destination AND the first alternate have conditional remarks.

Apologies for the omission.
 

Attachments

I scanned in the cheat sheet most of us carry here. Keep in mind some of this may not apply to you depending on your opspecs.

attachment.php
 

Attachments

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    alternate.jpg
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Polar742 said:
How do you know when the CA makes a mistake?

When I used to teach this in school, I found a way to draw it. However, since I'm technologically impaired, I'm not sure if I can reproduce it on the computer. When I'm on my next trip, I'll give it a try.
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My Spidey senses tell me when something is wrong:). I know what you're getting at. It's a two crew operation up there. I was trying to make a funny. Check ops manual when there is anything in question.
 
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