Excellent read...

mrivc211 said:
Do you have a better solution than what is available to us now?
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I don't have a solution, but the fact that Union leaders are not doing their pilots any justice is the reality. The fact that Prater sells out the Regional pilots for the benefit of Mainline is all too the sad reality that raising the ladder behind you is the mentality of the Mainline "Captain" unions.

The Union leaders are just as corrupt as the Airline CEO's....but in the end, its those of us just trying to pay the bills and put food on the table who suffer.

Here's some food for thought - because of ALPA and other mainline unions and their tactics of giving up "scope" in return for more mainline goodies, have indirectly lead to the massive growth of 70+ seat flying. Which has directly lead to the massive growth of Republic Airways and their 170's....which has indirectly lead to the demise of Midwest Airlines....the very same mainline jobs ALPA tried to protect.
 
surreal1221 said:
Cliffnotes.

Sadly, have more pressing things to read over 15 minutes.
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Go figure. Something that criticizes ALPA, and it's not important... But I'm sure a pro-union article would be "required reading."

I think it is an excellent article, and offers some interesting alternative viewpoints that we should all consider. Just like someone shouldn't watch only one cable news channel and develop opinions, we shouldn't do that with our labor union, either.
 
Well, not really. But, so be it Matt.

It's bookmarked, and I'll get to it tomorrow since I'm off. Finished some slightly more important stuff that needed to be addressed.

Figured I'd ask for some quick tid-bits before I attended to the above mentioned more pressing items in my life.

edit: From my quick cursory glance over the past few minutes, it certainly looks like it should be required reading in regards to the discussion concerning scope. Will get further into it tomorrow.
 
IIRC United went from 50 RJ's to unlimited with their contract 2000 and a 30(?)% pay raise. MAINLINE PILOTS SOLD OUT THE COMMUTER PILOTS, AND BLAME US FOR CAUSING THIS MESS.
 
wheelsup said:
IIRC United went from 50 RJ's to unlimited with their contract 2000 and a 30(?)% pay raise. MAINLINE PILOTS SOLD OUT THE COMMUTER PILOTS, AND BLAME US FOR CAUSING THIS MESS.
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I think you kind of missed the point to the blog - it wasn't necessarily mainline PILOTS as it was Union LEADERS of those mainline pilots. The point is, that the leaders inadvertantly have been self destructing the industry. I don't blame mainline pilots, I blame the mainline unions.

Just like I and the rest of the RAH pilots are not responsible for the demise of Midwest, our Union on the other hand does not have clean hands.

I particularly like this section of what he writes -

" So maybe ALPA needs to step up and take some responsibility for its contribution to building this sector of the industry. Only by agreeing to lower rates of pay and more flying time at the regional carriers can ALPA justify and sustain the generous pay, benefits and work rules that benefit pilots at the mainline airlines. "
 
Airdale said:
I think you kind of missed the point to the blog - it wasn't necessarily mainline PILOTS as it was Union LEADERS of those mainline pilots. The point is, that the leaders inadvertantly have been self destructing the industry. I don't blame mainline pilots, I blame the mainline unions.
.[/i] [/b]"
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Well, I do blame mainline pilots... One, they voted for the contracts that subbed out their jobs. Two, they voted in the Union leaders that brought them these piece a crap contracts to be voted on. However, there is a lot of blame to go around...
 
Airdale said:
I don't have a solution, but the fact that Union leaders are not doing their pilots any justice is the reality. The fact that Prater sells out the Regional pilots for the benefit of Mainline is all too the sad reality that raising the ladder behind you is the mentality of the Mainline "Captain" unions.

The Union leaders are just as corrupt as the Airline CEO's....but in the end, its those of us just trying to pay the bills and put food on the table who suffer.

Here's some food for thought - because of ALPA and other mainline unions and their tactics of giving up "scope" in return for more mainline goodies, have indirectly lead to the massive growth of 70+ seat flying. Which has directly lead to the massive growth of Republic Airways and their 170's....which has indirectly lead to the demise of Midwest Airlines....the very same mainline jobs ALPA tried to protect.
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How can the same union fairly represent both the regionals and mainline, without there being some sort of conflict of interest between the needs of each group?
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
Are the needs that substantially different?
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I think that depends who gets asked the question in the industry. It's one of those that we'd probably get a number of different answers to. I would think they'd be similar needs-wise, but you'll get person B who thinks mainline only works to stem regional growth potential and "keep the youngin's down", and you'll get person C who thinks regionals are only there to steal mainline flying on the cheap and fill the sky with RJs.
 
MikeD said:
I think that depends who gets asked the question in the industry. It's one of those that we'd probably get a number of different answers to. I would think they'd be similar needs-wise, but you'll get person B who thinks mainline only works to stem regional growth potential and "keep the youngin's down", and you'll get person C who thinks regionals are only there to steal mainline flying on the cheap and fill the sky with RJs.
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To me, I think both mainline MECs and regional MECs probably should want the same thing, if perhaps for different reasons: Well compensated regional pilots. To a mainline pilot the reason is to reduce the profit incentive for outsourcing flying. To the regional pilots the reason is obvious.
 
He makes some valid points but that's after saying that unions need to refrain from "hamstringing" the company. I argue that all the time, but then he blasts them for being too weak.
 
Mediocre article. Large gaps of logic.

Plus, just like we used to say at the "wailing wall" in the ATL lounge. If the author is going to drop names, well, be an adult and sign yours.
 
Airdale said:
I think you kind of missed the point to the blog - it wasn't necessarily mainline PILOTS as it was Union LEADERS of those mainline pilots.
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Oh OK my mistake I guess you're saying the union LEADERS were the ones that ratified the contract, my mistake.
 
While his message may be a valid one, it's still a hallow message.

Considering his background, it's quite clear there is some bias. Which, in all honesty, is fine by me.

But, I'd warn anyone from thinking he's actually an advocate for the plight of the working class, much less professional pilots. He certainly makes a valid case in regards to the politics surrounding the top echelon of aviation labor union leadership, but he fails to provide any sort of substantive suggestions to how he'd like the membership to take care of the leaders.

Must be nice to sit on the side lines, even if his analysis is quite humbling.
 
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