NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
My guy we are in Philadelphia no portable radio setup is going to reach to northern NJ
EWR radios and radar fail again
- Thread starter NovemberEcho
- Start date
My guy we are in Philadelphia no portable radio setup is going to reach to northern NJ
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
From PHL, zero chance anything VHF is getting propagation anywhere near NYC.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Sometimes it’s not the fault of who you think.
MajorBigCompany contracted with the local telecom provider to run leased, secure, but most importantly, redundant, high capacity data lines from one of its locations to an IT facility. It HAD to be reliable, out to a bunch of nines and the business told them that was the priority.
Smaller telecom says “no problem.” Runs 100% redundant fiber lines capable of all that….through the same conduit.
One day, some of the local folk were digging in their yard with a backhoe, and tore through the conduit and the super high tech, redundant, high speed lines. Both of them.
You'd like to think words and phrases all mean the same things, but they don't. "Redundant to a bunch of nines" means different things to different people. For some people, that means reasonably weather resistant cables run through a shielded conduit and a sign that says "call before you dig" every 3 miles. For other people, like say MaBell back in the day, it meant "sunken, hardened, lead lined tunnel, protecting 100% EMP proof cabling along divergent paths, with multiple, independent power supplies, good up to a 20 MT airburst".
There's a reason old MaBell buildings had no windows.
More random telephony trivia: Sprint, the old long distance company? Started out as the internal phone network of the Southern Pacific Railroad. It was convenient for them to lay their phone lines down in the right of way next to their tracks. SPRINT is actually an acronym for Southern Pacific Railroad Internal Networking Telephony.
BUUUUUTTTT, you've got to be careful. Some railroads sub-lease their rights of way. Now railroad real estate law goes back a LONG time, say about 175 years. Sometimes they own the land, sometimes they just have an easement. You need to read the fine print. One day, Mr. Montana Rancher is out and about on the South 4000 on his gator, and comes across a van with a weird symbol on the side, fussing around an old abandoned rail line, for a road that had an easement with his family going back generations. "What'ch y'all doin'?" asks the rancher. The startled techies look up and say "uh, we're maintaining this cable". Rancher goes on to say "Y'all know the trains don't run through here any longer, right?". Of course, neither of the techies knew much about railroads, and told the rancher that all they know is they were sent out here to maintain the cable. Rancher invites them to leave his property, which they promptly comply.
As you can imagine, a kerfluffle ensued with BigInternetCo (who only provided backbone service, no retail). They claimed they had right of passage through the easement as subleased by the railroad company. The problem, as it developed, was that the original easement was signed several generations ago, when it was thought that railroads were eternal. And both the railroad and the tech company, as then existed, were the result of several mergers and reorganizations over time. While the railroad was permitted to sub-lease the easement, a thorough & expensive legal forensic examination revealed that the easement only existed as long as the railroad was "actively" using the line for the purposes of rail transportation.
Oooops.
Now you have what turned out to be a major, major, internet backbone to the Pacific NW running through land with an extinguished easement.
I'll leave the solution as an exercise for the student.
MajorBigCompany contracted with the local telecom provider to run leased, secure, but most importantly, redundant, high capacity data lines from one of its locations to an IT facility. It HAD to be reliable, out to a bunch of nines and the business told them that was the priority.
Smaller telecom says “no problem.” Runs 100% redundant fiber lines capable of all that….through the same conduit.
One day, some of the local folk were digging in their yard with a backhoe, and tore through the conduit and the super high tech, redundant, high speed lines. Both of them.
You'd like to think words and phrases all mean the same things, but they don't. "Redundant to a bunch of nines" means different things to different people. For some people, that means reasonably weather resistant cables run through a shielded conduit and a sign that says "call before you dig" every 3 miles. For other people, like say MaBell back in the day, it meant "sunken, hardened, lead lined tunnel, protecting 100% EMP proof cabling along divergent paths, with multiple, independent power supplies, good up to a 20 MT airburst".
There's a reason old MaBell buildings had no windows.
More random telephony trivia: Sprint, the old long distance company? Started out as the internal phone network of the Southern Pacific Railroad. It was convenient for them to lay their phone lines down in the right of way next to their tracks. SPRINT is actually an acronym for Southern Pacific Railroad Internal Networking Telephony.
BUUUUUTTTT, you've got to be careful. Some railroads sub-lease their rights of way. Now railroad real estate law goes back a LONG time, say about 175 years. Sometimes they own the land, sometimes they just have an easement. You need to read the fine print. One day, Mr. Montana Rancher is out and about on the South 4000 on his gator, and comes across a van with a weird symbol on the side, fussing around an old abandoned rail line, for a road that had an easement with his family going back generations. "What'ch y'all doin'?" asks the rancher. The startled techies look up and say "uh, we're maintaining this cable". Rancher goes on to say "Y'all know the trains don't run through here any longer, right?". Of course, neither of the techies knew much about railroads, and told the rancher that all they know is they were sent out here to maintain the cable. Rancher invites them to leave his property, which they promptly comply.
As you can imagine, a kerfluffle ensued with BigInternetCo (who only provided backbone service, no retail). They claimed they had right of passage through the easement as subleased by the railroad company. The problem, as it developed, was that the original easement was signed several generations ago, when it was thought that railroads were eternal. And both the railroad and the tech company, as then existed, were the result of several mergers and reorganizations over time. While the railroad was permitted to sub-lease the easement, a thorough & expensive legal forensic examination revealed that the easement only existed as long as the railroad was "actively" using the line for the purposes of rail transportation.
Oooops.
Now you have what turned out to be a major, major, internet backbone to the Pacific NW running through land with an extinguished easement.
I'll leave the solution as an exercise for the student.
GolfChuck
Trustworthy Source
Do you have the direct line orange boxes at PHL? I assume even if you do they are still remote via Westbury?
caliginousface
Frank N. Beans
That's... embarrassing.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
Yeah we have them but when everything else goes down those do too. We can’t even use ESL on the scope when it happens.
Plllllllease turn that on. Southwest will eventually catch up. So much time is essentially wasted verbalizing a frequency change, changing to it, waiting to jump in when there’s a pause, you’re stepped-on, spend about 10 minutes on the frequency, then another frequency change.
@NovemberEcho
Do you guys have portable radios there? Like if sht hits the fan can you run a coax with a magnet mount antenna and at least have something in range?
I know it sucks but if I were in your shoes I'd ask around and see if you guys would split the cost of a radio, antenna and coax to cover yourselves.
ICOM A120 VHF Aviation Radio 3 Year Factory Warranty ICOM Authorized Dealer
VHF Aviation Radio, Active Noise Cancelling (ANC) and Bluetooth® capabilities, 36 watts of power, 3 Year Factory Warranty.theantennafarm.com
+PL256 male connector
ICOM K220A 108-512 MHz Aviation - VHF - UHF Tunable Mobile Antenna with Magnetic Mount - 12 ft RG58A/U coax cable - Connector Choice
ICOM K220A 108-512 MHz Aviation - VHF - UHF Tunable Mobile Antenna with Magnetic Mount - 12 ft RG58A/U coax cable - Connector Choice
Centers are remote and often not geographically associated with their facility name.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
“If I hit REJECT, can I stay with CZQM?”
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Like Palmdale wouldn’t get nuked if LA was.
KLB
Well-Known Member
I do not believe that one company out of many should have the power to limit the advancement in the ATC system or any other company.
It reminds me on how Boeing capitulated to SWA and all the "good" that did them. I remember when SWA first got 737's with glass flightdecks and they insisted that Boeing have a circular dial presentation in them so that they looked like the rest of the fleet rather than give it's crews proper difference training.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
If this is a crew qual/training issue the way one fixes that is by TRAINING THE FRAKKING CREWS not punishing the competent.
Once I get out of KZMP, Canada is blissful hours of “MONTIOR XXXX on XXX.XX” until we get to Anchorage and it’s “WAOOOO! Hey dawg, check in wit’ ya onboard pippin’ that Tree- Six- Zerrah. Nina One SHOOGA POP Herky DURR”
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
As I am sure you are doubtless well aware some of that smoke is coming from inside our own building.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
I find Anchorage to still be blissful. Not as blissful as Canada obviously.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
6 years I monitored guard on the strip of coastline from PDX to ANC and never heard a single meow.
Half the time going back to jnu at 2 AM we did our own frequency changes.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
my grandpa on my moms side was a telecom engineer for MaBell during that time period. I guess he had his name on a bunch of their patents.
nabbyfan
Well-Known Member
I wish. Especially for over flights that are essentially just “Hi, Bye”. No need for me to talk to the ANA crew flying to Mexico City when I could just text them that.
On our end it’s super easy too, next sector takes the handoff, a little button shows up on your data block. I hit that button and boom you’re off to the next guy. Going out past DINTY non radar? One click sends you Radar Termination, squawk whatever and freq Change approved. Like 10 seconds back per flight going out there, it’s not nothing. Getting the Monitor check ins to finish the deal would be fantastic….maybe someday.
