ever went under MDA by mistake?

taseal

taseal

Well-Known Member
this applies to people handflying of course :D

today I was doing a practice app, and in the smoothest air possible to mankind, I looked at my app plate for something real quick, and when I looked back at my gauges, I saw I was 40 feet under MDA. i went missed and that was that.

so it got me curious if you guys have ever gone under the MDA... and how it happened. were ya fighting the turbulence, plain mistake (like mine) or something else?
 
NO, no one has EVER done that!!!! :sarcasm:

Hey, it happens to every one. 40 feet is really not that much. Apply some excess thrust, pitch back on the yoke and in what, like 2 seconds, your back on your altitude. :D
 
Isn't that one of those "100 greatest lies of aviation"?

"I've never busted MDA."

Yeah, right. Everyone has or will done it. Mistakes of varying severity happen in aviation every day, on every flight.
 
I don't think I can think of anyone who has never gone below MDA. Especially in training. Alot of people get behind the airplane so easily and going below MDA is the last thing on their minds.

Sooo, the answer is Yes :)
 
Yeah...of course! Just always make an effort to quickly correct anything that's off, be it heading, altitude, airspeed...if it's off, you fix it.

Not a big deal to go 40' low...just get it back quick. Not sure if I would have missed off of just that.

Even on check-rides, the examiners have always made a point to tell me it's not an instant bust...if you hang out down there and do nothing about it, yeah...but not if turbulence takes you down there or if you are trying to hold it exact and go down 20'-40' and quickly pull it back to MDA.

-mini
 
minitour said:
Yeah...of course! Just always make an effort to quickly correct anything that's off, be it heading, altitude, airspeed...if it's off, you fix it.

Not a big deal to go 40' low...just get it back quick. Not sure if I would have missed off of just that.

Even on check-rides, the examiners have always made a point to tell me it's not an instant bust...if you hang out down there and do nothing about it, yeah...but not if turbulence takes you down there or if you are trying to hold it exact and go down 20'-40' and quickly pull it back to MDA.

-mini
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I see...

for us, you go 5 feet below MDA, you better go around. so I try to keep it like 30-40 feet above it just incase
 
taseal said:
I see...

for us, you go 5 feet below MDA, you better go around. so I try to keep it like 30-40 feet above it just incase
Click to expand...


Keep in mind you are in a training enviroment, you are supposed to look at everything as black and white and all things are absolute.


Ask yourself this, what is the permissable altimeter error on the ground?
 
taseal said:
I see...

for us, you go 5 feet below MDA, you better go around. so I try to keep it like 30-40 feet above it just incase
Click to expand...

When I was reading the Instrument Flying Handbook, I don't think it ever explicitly said it, but I got the gist from it that VOR approaches provide 250 ft obstacle clearance at the MDA and NDB approaches provide 350 ft clearance. Assuming that's what it actually is, 40 feet below MDA is nothing to worry about. Just don't hang out there, you never know what FDC NOTAM was put out after you took off...
 
taseal said:
this applies to people handflying of course :D

today I was doing a practice app, and in the smoothest air possible to mankind, I looked at my app plate for something real quick, and when I looked back at my gauges, I saw I was 40 feet under MDA. i went missed and that was that.

so it got me curious if you guys have ever gone under the MDA... and how it happened. were ya fighting the turbulence, plain mistake (like mine) or something else?
Click to expand...
never.












and all my landings roll on as if on marshmellos

matter of fact the FA always has to tell people we have landed.










and I've never put 100 in the heading bug when vectored to 010 . . . not even once.



:bandit::bandit::bandit:


In all seriousnes, I've never intentionally gone under MDA or DA, that's not:sarcasm:
 
Dugie8 said:
Keep in mind you are in a training enviroment, you are supposed to look at everything as black and white and all things are absolute.


Ask yourself this, what is the permissable altimeter error on the ground?
Click to expand...

very good point
 
taseal said:
I see...

for us, you go 5 feet below MDA, you better go around. so I try to keep it like 30-40 feet above it just incase
Click to expand...
I'd rather be bouncing back and forth between 10' low and 10' high than 40' high when wx is right at minimums.

Are you training for an airline?

-mini
 
minitour said:
I'd rather be bouncing back and forth between 10' low and 10' high than 40' high when wx is right at minimums.

Are you training for an airline?

-mini
Click to expand...

well the plan is to make it to an airline lol

I just do it the way school wants me to do it, so i don't unsat myself.

when I am responsible for the flight, under my own conditions, I will probably stay as close as I can and not worry TOO much if I drop 30-40 feet.

everyone has their own way of teaching, this 'if you drop 1 feet, you better go around idea is absurd now that I think about it.

I still am learning, eventually i'll figure out my way of doing it I guess.

I also never understood why I have to stay at MDA until short final. why can't I start my descent to land when i'm established on final?
 
taseal said:
I also never understood why I have to stay at MDA until short final. why can't I start my descent to land when i'm established on final?
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Couldn't tell you. Remember you have to be in a position to land using normal maneuvers and (if 121/135) land within the touchdown zone.

Are you having to chop, drop and slip when you leave MDA? If so, you really shouldn't be leaving MDA. As soon as I'm on a 3 degree glide path, I call "leaving MDA". That normally means 2 flying miles to go (300' per mile ~600' AGL) give or take.

Just do it the way the school wants it for now. I'd use all of the +100/-0 that you're allowed at MDA. Make your MDA artifically 50' higher and then give yourself +/-50'.

Good luck!

Personal practice (and "real world") recommendation. Round up a bit and try to stay at or above MDA, but if you're down 10-20', just get yourself back up quick. I don't think even I'm that good to keep it +/-0 all the time :D

-mini
 
taseal said:
I also never understood why I have to stay at MDA until short final. why can't I start my descent to land when i'm established on final?
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Whoever said you have to wait till short final? If you can see the runway and provide your own obstacle clearance, go ahead and start your descent. The object is to try to get as close to a "normal" descent as possible.
 
XcalibeR said:
Whoever said you have to wait till short final? If you can see the runway and provide your own obstacle clearance, go ahead and start your descent. The object is to try to get as close to a "normal" descent as possible.
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maybe I didn't understand my instructor right, i'll ask him tomorrow, clear it up for me.

it makes no sense.
 
In the training environment, do whatever it is they want you to do in order to move on to the next phase.

In the real world, being 30' - 40' high will often make the difference of getting in or not.

The 3-1 rule is an excellent SA aid in knowing if you are in a position to decend and land in a normal fashion providing you get a visual ref of the environment, especially in non-precision approaches.

Have I ever gone below a MDA or MDH? Never purposely.

FWIW - anyone that has flown an ILS down to mins and gone missed will have pentrated the 200' deck while powering up on the go.
 
Mr.Maximus said:
FWIW - anyone that has flown an ILS down to mins and gone missed will have pentrated the 200' deck while powering up on the go.
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The infamous:

"100 above... (plane says "Minimums")... Mini....mums (dang it... no lights) No Contact... go around... (RA says "100")"

Doh!

That said, calling minimums/no contact 50 feet above mins will force you to go around when you could probably get in (and almost every time in the sim).
 
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