Ethical question

jrh

jrh

Well-Known Member
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on the ethics of a situation I'm dealing with.

How should a flight instructor handle a student who wants to get a private certificate, but isn't willing, able, and/or dedicated enough to put in the work for it?

I've seen this with a student lately. They want their license, but only want to fly once per week. In my opinion, that is far too little time to make any significant progress. In addition, they don't do any ground work before coming out to fly.

In my mind, it almost seems unethical to keep flying with them. If it's obvious that they're not going to make enough progress to solo or go on to get their license in a reasonable amount of time, it seems as though the lessons are a waste of their time and money. Does the instructor have an obligation to tell them to stop until they want to put more effort in?

Or should the instructor talk to them and warn them that they will make very little progress, and if they want to keep flying, let that be their decision? If they decide to keep flying, how should the instructor structure the lessons? I've found that it's important to set goals and timetables for training, but what should be done when there is no timetable?

This type of student recently asked to fly with me, and I'm not sure what to say. I don't want to waste their money, but at the same time, the student is a customer, and "the customer is always right." If that's what they want to do, maybe I should let them do it.
 
Your first step must be to talk with the student ... DO NOT tell them to stop before you consult them concerning their progress ... perhaps it's a money issue and the student can only muster enough money to fly once per week ... and is content doing so. Perhaps the student is interested in learning to fly, but sees no point in rushing if it's going to be a leisure activitiy for them down the road.

How's your schedule? If they're not cutting into other business you need to turn away, it's money in your pocket.

I would say re-address the situation with us after you have spoken to the student to find out why they're only flying once a week before you start asking whether or not you should cut them loose.

If they're not concerned with ground school, and only focusing on the flying aspect, perhaps you should consult the Dept of Homeland Security
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Your first step must be to talk with the student ... DO NOT tell them to stop before you consult them concerning their progress ... perhaps it's a money issue and the student can only muster enough money to fly once per week ... and is content doing so. Perhaps the student is interested in learning to fly, but sees no point in rushing if it's going to be a leisure activitiy for them down the road.

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I guess in my effort to remain anonymous I wasn't as clear as I could have been in my first post.

This student has been flying with another inststructor at my flight school for the past several months, doing one lesson per week. His instructor is now moving on to a different job and the student asked to switch over to me for the rest of the school year.

I talked to his instructor about him this afternoon. The instructor told me that this student had about 40 hours of flight experience from during high school and had soloed during that time. However, his book knowledge is weak, he doesn't study, and because he only flies once per week, the instructor doesn't feel that the student is proficient enough to be re-signed off to solo. The student has mentioned a rather unrealistic goal of taking his checkride by the end of May, yet doesn't want to pick up his pace of flying or studying.

I asked about the student's aspirations, and why he was only flying once per week. The instructor told me the student is wanting the license mainly for recreational reasons and does not want to fly for a career. He only flies once per week because of financial limitations. As another side note, the instructor mentioned this student is ADHD, making it hard to focus on any details during lessons, and as we all know, flying is a disciplined activity--I'm not sure how compatible it is with ADHD.

Back to the point of my original post now. His financial limitation of only flying once per week is exactly why I am uneasy with this situation. We all know that flying is expensive. Money doesn't grow on trees. I can relate to finances getting tight, especially toward the end of a segment of training. However, I also have seen too many people throw thousands of dollars away by training this way, of only doing a lesson per week. When training is more intense, retention goes up, total time goes down, and therefore costs go down. I'm a firm believer that three lessons per week should be a minimum, and four is more effective. In my opinion, that's the way to do it right.

I tell people that it's much better to save up enough to do an entire rating quickly and in one shot, without having to pinch every penny, rather than scrape together cash as they go, even if that means taking six months or a year off between each rating. In the end, they save significant amounts of cash. I also tell people that reading textbooks, looking at the FAR/AIM, studying the ASA Oral Exam Guide, watching training videos from the library, and having their friends quiz them is free. Having me spoon feed them everything they need to know is going to take forever at a rate of $30/hour. However, I don't think that approach would work well with this student.

So the question at hand is, should I let this student keep doing something that I can almost guarantee he will not be successful with using his current method?

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How's your schedule? If they're not cutting into other business you need to turn away, it's money in your pocket.

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That's actually a side factor I've thought about. I'm fairly busy right now. I wouldn't go as far as to say I will have to turn away business if I fly with this student, but it will take an effort to fit him in. For what it's worth, the student's former instructor mentioned the student wasn't necessarily unreliable, but he wasn't known for his punctuality either. He would make it to 4 out of 5 lessons fine, but would occasionally oversleep and miss the lesson without calling, or would get busy with homework and cancel at the last minute or something. I don't care to deal with that if I don't have to.
 
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I asked about the student's aspirations, and why he was only flying once per week.

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I would not be so concerned about the flying once a week. Whatever the reasons, you should focus on giving him hte best instruction you can. With that being said, I would talk to him about your concerns with his studying and while you are willing to continue to work with him, he needs to keep up on his book work. And tell him the consequences will be you not instricting him anymore. IF after that, he does not make progress or fails to keep his end of the bargain, then let him go.

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So the question at hand is, should I let this student keep doing something that I can almost guarantee he will not be successful with using his current method?

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Try not to think that you can almost guarantee failure. With thoughts like that it will not help the process one bit. Adress your concerns and act on the results.
 
jrh,

Great discussion point! It's dialogue like this that supports my belief that there are flight instructors out there genuinely concerned about the welfare of their students!

The more you instruct, the more you're going to run into situations like this. As flight instructors, we've held ourselves to incredibly high standards throughout our training. we busted our butts, and learned as much as we possibly could. Suddenly, we figure out that not everyone has the same drive that we did. Say it ain't so, Mack!

So, here we are, with a "weekend warrior". Our first thought is, "This guy is never going to make it!!". Not neccesarily the case . . .

The majority of my students are the so-called "weekend warriors". The come in once a week, some even less frequently than that. The take a lesson, they study, and then go back to their life. Some of them are married, have kids, and booming careers. I have a VERY affluent accident attorney, doctors, nurses, truck drivers, and line boys. I've got military folks and college students. Not everybody can, or desires to, fly 3-4 times per week - be it for financial reasons, personal commitments, or otherwise. While I'm sure we'd like for every student to bang out 4 ratings per year, that just isn't the case - even for most of the career-folks!

Our job as a flight instructor is to help the student get the most out of his/her training. If a student can only come out to the airport once per week, then we make sure that it's the most efficient lesson that the student has ever had. Give the student reading assignments, and question sheets and problems to work out. Trade lunch for casual groundschool sessions. WORK WITH THE STUDENT!!!

If a student can come to the airport once per week, that makes 52 lessons per year. You can get a Private ticket done in that. When I went through my Private training, I couldn't fly very much at all. I was a married Corporal of Marines, with a baby girl. Three lessons per week weren't even possible in my dreams. Knowing that I had to work around that, I did whatever was possible to work it out. I made sure that my Instructor was on the ball, and that he could keep up with me. I managed to pull it off!

Always give the student the benefit of the doubt, but make sure that the student understands that there are limitations in the amount of progress (s)he can make with one lesson per week. Once that's done, and you've decided that you're going to go OUT OF YOUR WAY to make the training extra efficient, you should have no problem sleeping at night.
 
From what you've written, this kid doesn't seem to giving his training the dedication and seriousness it entails. Since this pattern of "1 lesson per week plus little studying in between" has been going on for months it's time to talk to him in a more blunt manner. This takes diplomatic tact, but I'd give the student "the business."
 
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However, his book knowledge is weak, he doesn't study, and because he only flies once per week, the instructor doesn't feel that the student is proficient enough to be re-signed off to solo.

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I have twelve students right now and all but two fly only once a week. We had one such student pass his check ride this week with 40.5 hours of flight time at the END of the check ride. Preflight and post flight briefings become very important with these students - you have to review the previous lesson every time and you have to talk about next weeks lesson every time to keep them focused.


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As another side note, the instructor mentioned this student is ADHD, making it hard to focus on any details during lessons, and as we all know, flying is a disciplined activity--I'm not sure how compatible it is with ADHD.

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You'd be suprised - ADHD is a learning disability that can be overcome. Did the instructor determine this on his own or did the student state that he is ADHD? If the student is willing to discuss it, talk with him about how it affects him and how you can help him learn. You may find tools like the King videos (or whoever else) stimulate his interest when reading or listening to you does not. Don't let ADHD be an obstacle for you or for this student!

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He would make it to 4 out of 5 lessons fine, but would occasionally oversleep and miss the lesson without calling, or would get busy with homework and cancel at the last minute or something. I don't care to deal with that if I don't have to.

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Sounds like a teenage student I have!
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Encourage him, be a good role model and you might be suprised at the result.
 
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I would not be so concerned about the flying once a week. Whatever the reasons, you should focus on giving him hte best instruction you can. With that being said, I would talk to him about your concerns with his studying and while you are willing to continue to work with him, he needs to keep up on his book work.

[/ QUOTE ]I agree with Jim. My students are pretty much =all= once-a-weekers. In my case, it's not financial but business - they have full time non-aviation careers and are learning to fly because it's something they always wanted to do. But the result is the same.

Fortunately, although it comes up from time to time, I don't generally have the study issues you do. My people get, up front, the rules of reality:

1. It takes almost twice as long and costs twice as much to learn to fly when you go once a week than it does if you can commit more time to it.

2. Ground knowledge is at least as important as stick time. (I once saw a DPE walking out of the FBO shaking his head. "Failure?" I asked. He nodded sadly, "Never got thorough the oral. He may be the bet pilot around but he hasn't a clue why.")

2. You can substantially minimize the extra time by being extra prepared for each lesson. In my case, that means reviewing the home-study lessons (I'm partial to Sporty's DVD and the Gleim "Flight Maneuvers" book) so you can explain that new maneuver to me and minimize the pre-flight briefing.

3. If you haven't done your homework, we'll have to do it on the ground because you have to understand the maneuver before we do it. That might mean no flight today and you get pay me for something you could have done for free at home.

The only "ethical" concern is being up front with this. If, knowing all this, they want to keep throwing money at you, that's their choice and, unless I can find some better way to spend my time, I'll stick with them.
 
Hey everyone,

Thanks for the excellent advice. As I've said in other posts, I'm a fairly new instructor. Hearing more experienced voices here at JC helps me out a lot.

As mtsu_av8er noticed, I'm a very driven person, and I have a hard time understanding people different than myself when it comes to aviation. When I do a rating, I hit it hard and get it finished as fast as possible. I don't understand people who let their training drag out. But that doesn't mean it's wrong.

When I said I could almost guarantee this student would not be successful using his current method, I didn't mean to sound too pessimistic, or imply that I'm giving up on him before he starts. I just meant that I have never seen anybody get anywhere on such a schedule. In fact, I've seen people waste a lot of time and money doing this style of training, which was why I was concerned. When I observed people wasting time before I became an instructor, I thought, "Whatever, that's their business." Now that I'm in the shoes of being an instructor, I've started thinking more seriously about my obligations to students.

But the bottom line is, I'm glad to see other instructors have had similar students who made it.

I'll talk to this student and as long as we're on the same page with expectations, I'll try to be the best instructor possible for him.

Of course, I don't mean to kill the thread here. Any other advice is appreciated.
 
I was one of those fly once a week, sometimes once every two weeks, maybe once every month kind of kids. I started taking lessons when I was 16 and finished my private license when I was 19. I flew when I could, which really meant when I had money. I took me 85 hours and 3 years, but I got it done. Yes, I know it took longer because I flew so little and it even cost more too. I was well aware of that, but that's how things went and I'm fine with it. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Give this guy the instruction he requests and he might well get done.

Honestly, I feel the same way you do about flying, but I feel that way about drumming. Who WOULDN'T want to spend an hour every day hacking out random rudiments on a practice pad? And who wouldn't want to march in a WGI or DCI line? Those people are crazy! To be honest though, I take it pretty seriously and most people don't. It's a fun activity that a lot of people take at their leasure, but I take it pretty seriously and I wonder sometimes how they can be so lax with their practicing. Different people have different priorities, though. Nothing wrong with it, just how things are.
 
I was more or less the same as John, except add a few years onto when I started. Financial/work problems kept me from flying as much as I wanted, and even caused a few headaches for my CFI during my instrument. However, I hit the books whenever I could to make sure I didn't forget how to do stuff. Finally, I decided to bust my butt working overtime and got enough $$$ to slam out my instrument rating. I was totallying up my monthly/yearly totals in my logbook the other night, and some of my monthly totals were less than some individual flights I'd flown. Kinda depressing, but I knew it was the only way I could get it done.

As far as the student in question, the lack of studying when he's not at the airport concerns me more than the "once a week" deal. If it's a financial deal with him, I'd stress how much studying on his own can cut his costs down. If it's a motivation thing, I'd see what kind of study materials he has. If it's just the FAA books, I'd recommend the Sporty's DVDs or (someone shoot me for saying this) the King set. Might make some of the things he isn't getting/doesn't want to get click faster.
 
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