Envoy MIA base to close

[Boyington]

Now, if I took that valuable three (or however many years) of experience and moved forward with it, that's fine. By moving forward, I mean a national/LCC, good corporate gig, overseas, etc. But leaving a place like Eagle for Mesa/PSA/Compass and hoping for a quick upgrade? I just couldn't do it, and quite frankly it would be a waste of my experience, hard work, education, and ability.

I understand your point, and just wanted to ask a follow up question to get your perspective on it.

Lets say that someone had been at Eagle for 3 years and stuck - with no upgrade in sight and no chance for advancement. That person chose to make a lateral move to Mesa/PSA/Compass and was able to upgrade 18 months later. After 6 years total in the regionals, that person had a resume that included 6 years of part 121 flying, of which the last 18 months were while serving as a Captain. At that point, they would have a much better chance of moving on to something better - like a national carrier. If they had stayed at Eagle (and I am not picking on Eagle - just using it as the example since you mentioned it), they would not have any PIC experience in the 121 world.

In this case, was making the lateral move worth it? If now, why? (I am not asking sarcastically, I am just trying to understand another point of view).

 

[GypsyPilot]

I understand your point, and just wanted to ask a follow up question to get your perspective on it.

Lets say that someone had been at Eagle for 3 years and stuck - with no upgrade in sight and no chance for advancement. That person chose to make a lateral move to Mesa/PSA/Compass and was able to upgrade 18 months later. After 6 years total in the regionals, that person had a resume that included 6 years of part 121 flying, of which the last 18 months were while serving as a Captain. At that point, they would have a much better chance of moving on to something better - like a national carrier. If they had stayed at Eagle (and I am not picking on Eagle - just using it as the example since you mentioned it), they would not have any PIC experience in the 121 world.

In this case, was making the lateral move worth it? If now, why? (I am not asking sarcastically, I am just trying to understand another point of view).

If I was absolutely guaranteed of that happening, I could afford it, and commuting wouldn't be an issue, then yeah. But there are no guarantees, and whatever the upgrade is today means nothing to me.

 

[ClarkGriswold]

If I was absolutely guaranteed of that happening, I could afford it, and commuting wouldn't be an issue, then yeah. But there are no guarantees, and whatever the upgrade is today means nothing to me.

Siiigggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Also depends on where you want to go. Some carriers view lateral moves negatively (even with TPIC), due to "giving up when the going gets tough".

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

If I was absolutely guaranteed of that happening, I could afford it, and commuting wouldn't be an issue, then yeah. But there are no guarantees, and whatever the upgrade is today means nothing to me.

There are NEVER guarantees, and certainly not in this industry. You have to look at your situation and make what you feel is the best decision with the available information at the time. Staying put just for the sake of staying put is just as stupid as leaving just to leave.

 

[GypsyPilot]

There are NEVER guarantees, and certainly not in this industry. You have to look at your situation and make what you feel is the best decision with the available information at the time. Staying put just for the sake of staying put is just as stupid as leaving just to leave.

Agreed. I never said one should stay put. My message is it's more about where you go.

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

Agreed. I never said one should stay put. My message is it's more about where you go.

It pains me to say, but I sure would avoid XJT, or any really large regional. Yes, the tide may turn, but a company that large takes a long time to turn around.

 

[GypsyPilot]

It pains me to say, but I sure would avoid XJT, or any really large regional. Yes, the tide may turn, but a company that large takes a long time to turn around.

Yep, so would I if on the job search these days.

 

[Boyington]

It would be nice to have a frank, open discussion on the real current benefits and draw backs of each of the regionals. To do so, without the input of half-truths by random trolls, could be a very valuable thing. There is a wealth of knowledge on this board, and some very intelligent people that do not mind sharing what they have learned in the industry.

 

[bretthullrampage]

Also depends on where you want to go. Some carriers view lateral moves negatively (even with TPIC), due to "giving up when the going gets tough".

I wouldnt let this stop me from making a move though. I have a buddy who left crappy regional A after 7 months for crappy regional B and got hired at the majors no problem.

 

[Dexter]

I wouldnt let this stop me from making a move though. I have a buddy who left crappy regional A after 7 months for crappy regional B and got hired at the majors no problem.

X2 Have spoken with several guys in jumpseats while commuting. Was at X regional, left after 18 months to go to Y regional, got some TPIC, got the call and moved to a major. It's not viewed in a bad light at all.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

X2 Have spoken with several guys in jumpseats while commuting. Was at X regional, left after 18 months to go to Y regional, got some TPIC, got the call and moved to a major. It's not viewed in a bad light at all.

Your mileage may vary, but I spoke with a recruiter. That's where I got my facts from.

 

[kellwolf]

For me, the big thing is QoL. If you're living in base, it's a whole lot easier to stick it out at a crappier regional with little to no upward mobility. Unless your target job is somewhere that requires TPIC to apply (like SWA and (I believe) FedEx). If you're commuting, sometimes it's easier to make the jump since you're still going to be commuting one way or the other. If you're based in JFK....well, you can pretty much take your pick of crappy regionals.

The other thing to think about is separating yourself from the herd when it comes to resumes. If you're one of 4,000 FOs with no TPIC scrambling for 1,000 jobs, it's harder to stand out. If you can move somewhere to add the TPIC to resume, it MIGHT just give you the leg up to get out of the rat race.

It's all a crap shoot, and there are zero guarantees. You might jump over to Compass, and Delta might announce they're yanking their flying 6 months after you get there. You just don't know. However, if you're sitting on 2 years of seniority at 9E, I'd still say your situation hasn't gotten worse if you make the jump.

For that fact, SWA could jump on the news tomorrow, announce they bought jetBlue and I could be furloughed in a few months. If you're not willing to take a chance because there's no guarantee, then it's probably best to look elsewhere for a career.

 

[Comair 100ER]

Sounds like the company may offer a "new deal" next week. After the months of being "punished", I think the likelyhood of it passing is pretty good. Who knows, maybe it'll save MIA from closing too.

 

[chrisreedrules]

Sounds like the company may offer a "new deal" next week. After the months of being "punished", I think the likelyhood of it passing is pretty good. Who knows, maybe it'll save MIA from closing too.

I've heard that they will offer Envoy the remaining 175s in exchange for 12/4 etc... The "New American" wants 12/4 for all it's ffd carriers. And I heard that the 145s are still leaving Envoy. Who knows, maybe they will announce that the 700s are staying after all? That would make things interesting!