Enlisted combat pilots?
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z987k
Well-Known Member
They're talking about the military here though. I have to assume the military actually wants critical thinking and outside the box ideas to advance their cause, at least at the officer level, one would hope. Unlike the airlines who profess to want that, but in reality, to just stfu and color. Entirely different things with different goals.
Been working on mine.... again, for the last year and a half. But you missed my point.
So now people w/out degrees can't think outside the box, or think critically?
z987k
Well-Known Member
No. I'm holding the military to a higher standard than an airline in that they actually want people that can. In all forms.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
I've worked with incredibly smart folks, as well as incredible dumb dumbs in probably every rank in the military, at least E-1 through O-8 (have not every directly worked with a 3 or 4 star, thankfully). To say that the O-grades have an inherent superiority over E's in decision making/intelligence/ability to get through a trade school (i.e. flight school)/leadership, is absurd, to say the least. When I was a maintenance division officer, I had plenty of extremely capable Sailors, who could have easily made it through flight school. I wrote LORs for several of them who applied to commissioning programs, and in the years since, a couple did do just that. So I've got no issue with the idea. But I do question what problem this is attempting to solve. It certainly is not solving USAF retention problems, nor would it in the future. The way I read it, this is written (even if not explicitly so) purely to create UAS pilots. If so, that might make sense for the AF, who has a pretty broad UAS community at this point, compared to the other services.
av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
@hook_dupin Thoughts?
BigZ
Well-Known Member
Uncle Joe Stalin had the exact same thing going right before the war. That was relatively short lived and caused a bit of confusion, when the pilot was a sergeant and as the commander of the aircraft was the ranking officer to the lieutenant navigator and master sergeant gunner. It was a bit easier in the fighter units, except the command there was merit based and there was some grumbling from the pre-change 1st lieutenant wingmen about their master sergeant wing leads.
A mess in other words.
A mess in other words.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
It ain't that weird in practice. Step into my new world of 2 seat fighters (was always single seat before). My skipper (CO/CC, whatever you want to call it) is a WSO, former RIO. We fly all the time together, one might even say we are quasi crewed together. I'm a senior O-3/(O-4 select), he is a senior O-5, so maybe not quite as much pay grade difference as your example, but I am still quite definitely junior to him and he is my boss's boss. I will always be the aircraft commander, and I will also always be the only one who can release ordnance from the aircraft. I'll also generally be the instructor (not for him, but for the junior guys in our flight). Never had a problem with that arrangement, and I think the military does a good job overall, in a multi-place aircraft, of checking rank at the door.......we make decisions together as a crew, and while I trust his experience and judgement, if he was for some bizarre reason, trying to talk me into a bad decision, I wouldn't hesitate to go ICS off and do what I need to do.....we can talk about it safely on the ground, and I know that is what he would expect me to do as well, as the "man"......not that such a thing would ever happen, but the designation of aircraft commander is not subject to rank.
Lawman
Well-Known Member
I’m continuously amazed at justifications like this.
How many people here have been senior in rank to a flight lead? How many multicrew aircraft fly with some serious rank on board knowing dude is not in charge when the engine catches fire?
A qual like aircraft or mission commander isn’t a given based upon rank. Go ask the 160th if you think otherwise. Their flight leads... with very very few exception are warrants not RLOs.
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NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
Figured y'all would have already heard but they clarified and they have no intention of making enlisted pilots. They're just doing some study about how airmen learn and some enlisted members will be included in the study
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/...s-down-possibility-of-enlisted-combat-pilots/
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/...s-down-possibility-of-enlisted-combat-pilots/
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Did hear that, but I suppose it is an interesting discussion topic
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