English as Second Language Student

Cessnaflyer

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I need some advice from fellow CFIs.

Here is some background information on a student I have quoting from the AMEs forum:

OK, thanks for the English requirements. I always thought that if the AME suspected anything being deficient they would pursue further to determine a final ruling.

As for the mailing the certificate, I am still trying to figure it out. He said the AME had passed him with no limitations but he was only able to get it through the mail. Again I don't know if I believe this because he has to use glasses to read so there has to be some sort of limitation on there.

I asked the student if they deferred it and he did not understand what deferred meant even after I tried to describe it to him. I think I might try calling the examiner and understand what has really happened but I am not sure if flight medical examination falls under the same HIPAA rules. This student owns his own airplane and has been flying for more then 15 years and has amassed easily more then 2000 hours of time. I've only been giving him ground instruction and told him I will not sign him off for anything I have done. He has a flight instructor he flies with that does the rest.

Thanks for the help!
So I have been giving him around 10 hours of ground instruction and so far he has retained it as well as a sieve holds water. He barely speaks english and has the same ability to read it. He has gone for many checkrides with about every examiner in the area and they all failed him because he knows squat. I ask him a question and if he doesn't know the answer (which is 99% of the time) he changes the subject to something not even related to flying. For example, I asked him what a METAR was and he answered with not kidding you, "I have a friend that has two daughters and they went to college". I stared at him and just shook my head. I asked again and I got a similar response. I feel bad telling him he should give up on flying because I have been told the same thing before when I was in High School.

Does anyone have any idea how I should go about teaching him so he can maybe understand the basic rote knowledge needed for his checkride?
 
I guess my first question would be: what sort of certificate does he have that he's been able to fly 2000 hours in his own plane? Does he have a foreign license?

As for ESL issues, your best bet may be to refer him to a community college or private tutor. In some cases there may also be resources available depending upon his ethnic/national background (local Vietnamese, Mexican, Polish, Egyptian, etc. Society). There's some work you can do as a CFI, but if his language level is sufficiently deficient, you're wasting your and his time.

I dunno, though... from what little you've told us, I'm not sure language, specifically, is his issue. There may be cultural aspects or, simply, a lack of dedication to learning the material.

One final thing: don't hesitate to sign-off any training you've done with him. Actually, it's an obligation. Just don't give him an endorsement unless he's earned it.

What is he working on, by the way?
 
I need some advice from fellow CFIs.

Here is some background information on a student I have quoting from the AMEs forum:

So I have been giving him around 10 hours of ground instruction and so far he has retained it as well as a sieve holds water. He barely speaks english and has the same ability to read it. He has gone for many checkrides with about every examiner in the area and they all failed him because he knows squat. I ask him a question and if he doesn't know the answer (which is 99% of the time) he changes the subject to something not even related to flying. For example, I asked him what a METAR was and he answered with not kidding you, "I have a friend that has two daughters and they went to college". I stared at him and just shook my head. I asked again and I got a similar response. I feel bad telling him he should give up on flying because I have been told the same thing before when I was in High School.

Does anyone have any idea how I should go about teaching him so he can maybe understand the basic rote knowledge needed for his checkride?

You think you have it bad, we have a class that 6/7 students are just like what you described. They also refuse to speak English and when the instructors get on them they just whisper all the time instead. We are debating on mixing them in with the Chinese when they get here, force em to speak English as it would be the only way to communicate.
 
He has been able to get many, many 90 day endorsements and has been signed off on his student license every two years. He has only one instructor in the area and pays him close to $100 an hour to fly with him. He is going to be here in a few minutes so I am going to ask him if he has his medical yet.
 
Just do what we had to do with some of our students and tell him unless he studies X and is able to answer questions about X he can not fly. One of the instructors did that at my school because the student couldn't even label the six pack for a good week and they did a ground school over just the six pack every day. The guy soloed at 60 hours of flight time.

Sometimes I wish as instructors that we could sign off the students just so they could fail a checkride as they sometimes need to learn the hard way. Same this with the written exams. Sign them off without the ramifications coming back to us. Unfortunately that doesn't happen so we have to go in circles with the students.
 
I forgot to ask him about his medical but I was so happy because he remembered almost all of the required instruments for VFR flight
 
If some of our guys could tell us what "normally aspirated" means I would probably have a heart attack. We ask them and explain what it means almost everyday and they still don't know what it means.
 
You think you have it bad, we have a class that 6/7 students are just like what you described. They also refuse to speak English and when the instructors get on them they just whisper all the time instead. We are debating on mixing them in with the Chinese when they get here, force em to speak English as it would be the only way to communicate.


61.103 (C) Show them that and tell them speak English or the door back to their country is over there (point at door). :)

PS No offense to the foreigners who may read this, but just remember if your country developed the industry I would expect to have to speak your language to operate in that industry.

If you want a little more to reference here is a quote from something I got in my e-mail regarding ATC/Pilot communications from various places in the world:

A Pan Am 727 flight, waiting for start clearance in Munich, overheard the following:


Lufthansa (in German): "Ground, what is our start clearance time?"


Ground (in English): "If you want an answer, you must speak in English."


Lufthansa (in English): "I am a German, flying a German airplane, IN Germany ... Why must I speak English?"


Unknown voice from another plane (in a beautiful British accent): "Because you lost the bloody war!"
 
Do what you've been doing. Tell him you will not sign him off until you feel he is prepared and in order to make you feel prepared he needs to focus on the task at hand and study the knowledge, then prove to you that he knows it. I've had to do it quite a few times and if they truly want to finish, they will do it, if not, hey....more money for you :p
 
61.103 (C) Show them that and tell them speak English or the door back to their country is over there (point at door). :)

PS No offense to the foreigners who may read this, but just remember if your country developed the industry I would expect to have to speak your language to operate in that industry.


Funny thing is I keep asking our students what the eligibility requirements are for a private pilot. They can't even get that right as they spout off "35 hours" and that's it. It is really sad.
 
Funny thing is I keep asking our students what the eligibility requirements are for a private pilot. They can't even get that right as they spout off "35 hours" and that's it. It is really sad.


35 hours? Hmm maybe they just didn't tell you they are taking a 141 course!
 
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