ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
My last selfie is trying to take a picture without realizing the camera is facing backwards.
Emirates near disaster on takeoff
- Thread starter touch-n-go
- Start date
///AMG
Well-Known Member
pwned by own camera.....I like
///AMG
Well-Known Member
In my world, there is significant data to suggest 1000 hrs-2000 hrs is the most dangerous period of one's career. It is a weird corner of aviation that for many reasons, doesn't reflect the rest. But the vast majority of our accidents take place at the hands of 2nd or 3rd tour aviators with 1000-1500 hrs of TT. I'm not sure that the 1500 hr deal makes that much sense as an absolute, but it might have statistical data to back it up at least. I also happen to believe that the Colgan rules changed almost nothing because they didn't address the actual problems that caused the accident that night when two ATP's with > 1500 hrs crashed a plane.
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
I can't speak for other airlines in the region. I can only speak about what I personally witnessed over 8 years in the Emirates training department. I saw a lot of local Emirati pilots let go for various reasons, one of which I personally worked with who could not meet the standard during the alloted training and extra training given to him.
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
It’s always the worst when the camera opens to the front facing one.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
LA ground got REAL excited one day on taxi-in, when I went one click too far on the transponder (ALT OFF vs. XPDR, I think it says—whichever position on that dial strangles Mode C but leaves Mode A operating).
Hurriedly: ”Spiritwings turn your transponder on.”
”Say again?”
”Turn your transponder on, I can’t see you!”
sheepishly “Oops” *click*
…as we taxied in a bright yellow airplane on a clear, sunny day, which added to the irony of “I can’t see you!”
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Max Power
Well-Known Member
I’m torn on this one. Ab initio is prevalent everywhere besides the US. Airline training and thinking from day one and all that . And it works.But I also feel , as some of you do too, that boring holes in the sky with students, drawing lines, etc. does make you a stronger pilot.
At 44, I have just accepted a position as an FO at a legacy carrier. Do I appreciate the 9000 plus hours and all the experience( CFII, 91/135 charter, non flying aviation jobs) I have acquired to get to this point? Yes. Would I have rather been in an Airbus or 737 a long time ago? Also yes. Can I bring a lot more to my new position than I would have at 250 hours? Yes again, but also a lot of the baggage and bad habits of prior experience too.
With the non wholly owned regionals struggling for pilots, small flight schools struggling, what other choice do the airlines have besides pushing more ab initio training? I’m grateful for the 1000 plus of instructing before I touched a 121 cockpit, but was it really important? I think it was and I still think it’s valuable. CFI taught me more about dealing with other people as well as having to stay 3 steps ahead of the student helped develop other qualities too.
At my first airline job in 2007 one senior Captain said “you were an instructor weren’t you?” before I could even tell him anything about myself. When I asked how he knew, he said “because you’re willing to learn and listen to me,because there’s a lot you can’t learn in the schoolhouse. Yet the new guys who never instructed treat the school house as gospel and won’t listen to any suggestions”. I don’t remember what the circumstance was that brought this out, but it stuck with me. Maybe 1500 hours is too much. Maybe it’s not enough. Maybe it depends on the individual more than any other factor.
At 44, I have just accepted a position as an FO at a legacy carrier. Do I appreciate the 9000 plus hours and all the experience( CFII, 91/135 charter, non flying aviation jobs) I have acquired to get to this point? Yes. Would I have rather been in an Airbus or 737 a long time ago? Also yes. Can I bring a lot more to my new position than I would have at 250 hours? Yes again, but also a lot of the baggage and bad habits of prior experience too.
With the non wholly owned regionals struggling for pilots, small flight schools struggling, what other choice do the airlines have besides pushing more ab initio training? I’m grateful for the 1000 plus of instructing before I touched a 121 cockpit, but was it really important? I think it was and I still think it’s valuable. CFI taught me more about dealing with other people as well as having to stay 3 steps ahead of the student helped develop other qualities too.
At my first airline job in 2007 one senior Captain said “you were an instructor weren’t you?” before I could even tell him anything about myself. When I asked how he knew, he said “because you’re willing to learn and listen to me,because there’s a lot you can’t learn in the schoolhouse. Yet the new guys who never instructed treat the school house as gospel and won’t listen to any suggestions”. I don’t remember what the circumstance was that brought this out, but it stuck with me. Maybe 1500 hours is too much. Maybe it’s not enough. Maybe it depends on the individual more than any other factor.
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
Maybe it’s just my airline, but to me it seems the guys who are excited to “suggest” things and disparage the school house tend to be the ones who should be keeping their opinions to themselves
There are techniques out there and a lot to learn from other pilots, but have your BS meter properly calibrated. To me the phrase “now they don’t teach this in the training center” is a huge red flag.
n57flyguy
Well-Known Member
It's not an hours to hours comparison. It's a mental approach to the mission, and confidence while executing it - not TACC overlords/operational control. If you know, you know.
And if a civilian company tried to recreate that, most would quit.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
That guy is something else.
Max Power
Well-Known Member
I don’t think my anecdotal situation was quite like that, it’s been too long to remember,but I get your point. The point I was trying to make was that I believe being an instructor teaches that you can learn something from everyone and I’ve tried to be mindful of that over my career.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Even PFT required much higher hours except for during the 2000s. PFT’s actual heyday was during the 90s when the supply of pilots far exceeded the demand, and almost all of the regionals had PFT programs. But the minimums were usually something like 1,200-1,500 TT and 100-500 multi. You had to have those hours and pay $10k to get in the door.
The current 1,500 hour rule, whether you think it‘s necessary for safety or not, has done what the ABA and AMA have done for the legal and medical fields: raise standards for entry so that wages are kept artificially high. Be glad about it. Those of us who came up before it had to deal with sub-poverty wages until upgrading to captain. You don’t want those days back.
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tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
Is something happening with LAX controllers these days? I got a runway crossing clearance going 80 knots down the runway on landing, my captain asks me to confirm again because he didn't hear. I'm thinking no problem, I quickly ask hey just confirm cleared to cross and I got yelled at how I need to turn my volume up and pay attention better. Like what? I just laughed, not worth my energy but what a waste of time to add in the snarky jab at the end.
Egads. Some of my students came out of the sim like this, I made an angry email and it stopped.
Man, having superpowers ROCKS! Be happy I’m not evil.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
I mean, you’ve been to LAX, right?
roundout
VNAV monitor
More pilots more safer
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
As Todd said, the ATP rule, which I will grant may have been rushed to passage, has inadvertently has worked out for MUCH better in a lot of different ways. The safety record has improved and the industrial side has improved as well.
The civilian pipeline worked for decades with pilots earning their hours up to 1,200-1,500 hours before moving up, and typical entry level commuter gigs didn't even really start until north of 1,500. Now, all of a sudden, working to get that time is a bad thing? Heck, even IFR 135 requires ATP-ish time (well, a little less).
Right now, the only people clamoring to change it are the same people who were opposed to it from the start: bottom dwelling management types with an RJ fixation and snake oil salesmen hucking "the dream" to wannabees who don't have the attention span to stick to a job for 1-2 years. That includes the universities.