Emergency Descent ?

bc2209

Well-Known Member
The airplane flying handbook says power idle, props full, gear and flaps down.

However, I have a Vfe speed of 103 and a Vle of 129.

If i'm banking 45 degrees with my landing gear down i'm able to have a much higher airspeed on the descent than if I had all my flaps down.

Is the drag created by full flaps and a lower airspeed going to allow me to get down faster.

What do you think?

Gear and flaps down or just gear?
 
If your specific airplane manual doesn't define it, you only can try it both ways and note the vsi or time it.
The AFH is generic and may work for most light GA, but is not airplane specific.
 
Eh nevermind I sort of found the answer to my own question.

AFH says "as specified by the POH and manufacturer".

But all opinions are welcomed...
 
I know in the 172 Heavy we use a modified cabin fire setup of gear down, no flaps, 30 degree bank, and 110kts. But we teach that and a real life one which just goes to 45 degree bank and 120kts+ which really gets you down fast :D
 
Why do you want a fast airspeed? You want to be descending at a fast rate. I would put money on flaps and gear and max flap speed will get you down faster than no flaps, although I would be interested to hear your results if you try it.
 
The airplane flying handbook says power idle, props full, gear and flaps down.

However, I have a Vfe speed of 103 and a Vle of 129.

If i'm banking 45 degrees with my landing gear down i'm able to have a much higher airspeed on the descent than if I had all my flaps down.

Is the drag created by full flaps and a lower airspeed going to allow me to get down faster.

What do you think?

Gear and flaps down or just gear?
@dc3flyer asked why you want a higher airspeed. The goal of the emergency descent isn't high airspeed; it's high descent rate. The reason for the flaps and gear (assuming it's right for your airplane) is the same as the reason for the 45° bank — high VSI, not high ASI. Get down fast without overstressing the airplane.

...at least for the AFH version of the maneuver. For example, the later Mooney manuals describe two versions of the maneuver - a high speed version to be used only in completely smooth air and at low speed all other times. Both will produce descent rates up to 2000 FPM.
 
172RG Cutlass. The POH doesn't have an emergency descent, but the fire in flight is closest. Our school doesn't teach it with flaps, but that's probably because we are trying to closely match the POH and probably help keep our students from breaking the planes so much
 
One thing that's worth pointing out is that depending on the reason for your actual emergency descent you may not care if you shed a gear door by exceeding Vlo in the process.
Right! There are many reasons why you may need to descend urgently or life-threatenly emergency.
May ways and reasons.
I try to teach basic fast and slow and circling and straight ahead, with combinations of those 4 basic moves.
For instance, full flaps and about 1.3 Vso with a 45 to 60° bank if you want to stay over the same spot, or clean and yellow line if you want to go forward fast.
It can't just be about max rate of descent. You have to be thinking about where that is taking you.
 
One thing that's worth pointing out is that depending on the reason for your actual emergency descent you may not care if you shed a gear door by exceeding Vlo in the process.

When I did my Lear type, in a legit over speed, the told us to drop the gear and worry about the gear doors later. Pulling the boards out at high speed moves the center of pressure and makes it worse.
 
When I did my Lear type, in a legit over speed, the told us to drop the gear and worry about the gear doors later. Pulling the boards out at high speed moves the center of pressure and makes it worse.
That's a good example. Another is if one of those glowing orange pipes on the 'Jo gives up and things start getting toasty under the hood and you need to get the airplane on the ground NOW.
 
Another situation - our procedure for an emergency descent in the seminole is gear down (below 140kts,) cowl flaps open, power to idle, props forward, pitch for 135kts (140kts is vle,) and bank up to 45 degrees (turn opposite of the engine fire, if the descent is due to a fire.) In the event of a fire, you want as much air going through the nacelles as possible to (hopefully) put the fire out. In a situation where you just need to get down, banking will increase your descent rate without an appreciable increase in airspeed. Of course, there are many variables that can go into this.
 
This is from the airplane flying handbook.

An emergency descent is a maneuver for descending as rapidly as possible to a lower altitude or to the ground for an emergency landing. [Figure 16-6] The need for this maneuver may result from an uncontrollable fire, a sudden loss of cabin pressurization, or any other situation demanding an immediate and rapid descent. The objective is to descend the airplane as soon and as rapidly as possible, within the structural limitations of the airplane. Simulated emergency descents should be made in a turn to check for other air traffic below and to look around for a possible emergency landing area. A radio call announcing descent intentions may be appropriate to alert other aircraft in the area. When initiating the descent, a bank of approximately 30 to 45° should be established to maintain positive load factors (“G” forces) on the airplane.


Emergency descent training should be performed as recommended by the manufacturer, including the configuration and airspeeds. Except when prohibited by the manufacturer, the power should be reduced to idle, and the propeller control (if equipped) should be placed in the low pitch (or high revolutions per minute (r.p.m.)) position. This will allow the propeller to act as an aerodynamic brake to help prevent an excessive airspeed buildup during the descent. The landing gear and flaps should be extended as recommended by the manufacturer. This will provide maximum drag so that the descent can be made as rapidly as possible, without excessive airspeed. The pilot should not allow the airplane’s airspeed to pass the never-exceed speed (VNE), the maximum landing gear extended speed (VLE), or the maximum flap extended speed (VFE), as applicable. In the case of an engine fire, a high airspeed descent could blow out the fire. However, the weakening of the airplane structure is a major concern and descent at low airspeed would place less stress on the airplane. If the descent is conducted in turbulent conditions, the pilot must also comply with the design maneuvering speed (VA) limitations. The descent should be made at the maximum allowable airspeed consistent with the procedure used. This will provide increased drag and therefore the loss of altitude as quickly as possible.

The recovery from an emergency descent should be initiated at a high enough altitude to ensure a safe recovery back to level flight or a precautionary landing. When the descent is established and stabilized during training and practice, the descent should be terminated.

In airplanes with piston engines, prolonged practice of emergency descents should be avoided to prevent excessive cooling of the engine cylinders.
 
try it both ways and note the vsi or time it.

This. It's all about drag, the more drag the faster you come down. There is no way to know for sure without a test unless the POH tells you. I've not found one that does unless it's a pressurized bird. I cannot think of a situation where you'd want to use such a technique in a non pressurized aircraft.

The AFH mentioned fire, but if you have a fire speed is your friend. Want proof? Check out the cirrus video where they pulled the chute. Point the nose to the ground and hope the fire goes out before the wings fall off. I was taught and teach to fly to Vne (Vno if it's choppy) for a fire, not turn around in a circle at 85 knots with full flaps...no thank you.
 
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