Embry Riddle?

I graduated Riddle in '03. So far I've got on at every place I've interviewed at first try and the networking I've done there has been very helpful in the past.


I'll agree networking is important, but I've also gotten on at every place I applied (instructor, FO, etc) and I DIDN'T go to Riddle. Honestly, this argument is a lot like "There hasn't been another terrorist even in the US, so Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld were right." Just because it happened/hasn't happened doesn't mean things would have been different the other way. I'm inclined to believe the networking, in your situation, was more advantageous than the Riddle degree. I know Colgan and XJ really don't care. :)
 
I got very lucky and went thru ERAU with a bunch of great people so I had a good experience. Of course it was the late 1980's and the costs (well, PRICE) was much MUCH lower. In fact, we were ready to occupy the administration buildings because the price to rent a 180HP 172Q had just went up to $50/hr and that was PREPOSTEROUS because North Aire was charging $41/hr.

An expensive, often times staring at the wall of the dorms drinking warm beer, driving to Phoenix to pick up chicks, but stopping by Panchos by Metro Center first, good time though.

College is what you make it.

It will not necessarily help a weak candidate win a job, but to many recruiters, it can certainly be the "icing on the cake" of a strong candidate. But you can be a strong candidate without a ERAU pedigree.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not endorsing ERAU or any other prestigiously-named college, but a couple of years ago, I as able to get a pilot interviewed at Southernjets that didn't quite meet the minimum requirements because he was a graduate of a prestigious university in the northeast.

Please don't shoot the messenger.

I was certainly surprised to hear that it's what put the candidate over the top and won him a telephone call from pilot selection to schedule an interview.

Take an approach to your education to keep yourself as whole and as varied as possible. Lots of things matter to some, many things don't to others. Good luck!
 
I got very lucky and went thru ERAU with a bunch of great people so I had a good experience. Of course it was the late 1980's and the costs (well, PRICE) was much MUCH lower. In fact, we were ready to occupy the administration buildings because the price to rent a 180HP 172Q had just went up to $50/hr and that was PREPOSTEROUS because North Aire was charging $41/hr.

An expensive, often times staring at the wall of the dorms drinking warm beer, driving to Phoenix to pick up chicks, but stopping by Panchos by Metro Center first, good time though.

Great times, Pancho's was! And I remember the price raise for the aircraft.......I'm floored with what rental prices are now.[/quote]

College is what you make it.

We had Gary Lopez and his night briefings that were more like veiled threats. And Ron Evans to contrast Lopez 180 degrees in the personality department.

It will not necessarily help a weak candidate win a job, but to many recruiters, it can certainly be the "icing on the cake" of a strong candidate. But you can be a strong candidate without a ERAU pedigree.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not endorsing ERAU or any other prestigiously-named college, but a couple of years ago, I as able to get a pilot interviewed at Southernjets that didn't quite meet the minimum requirements because he was a graduate of a prestigious university in the northeast.

Please don't shoot the messenger.

I was certainly surprised to hear that it's what put the candidate over the top and won him a telephone call from pilot selection to schedule an interview.

Take an approach to your education to keep yourself as whole and as varied as possible. Lots of things matter to some, many things don't to others. Good luck!

Agree with all.
 
"Daftarian! Cessna North is AFU and we've got six Cessna birds and a couple seminoles running close to bingo. Get out there and pathfind!"
 
Seriously! Lopez was there back THEN?!?! In the dark ages before computers. Oh boy, the green bar is something I'm sure you guys miss!
 
Well....
lots of responses. So my guess is that ERAU overall is hyped up and not really a better school in terms of academics.

There are smart kids at every school.

There are people here that went to ERAU that have been successful, but they probably would have been successful had they gone somewhere else. If your heart is set on ERAU, as some people get their hearts set on a college, then you should go - it would be a passion and you would be proud to be there. If you are looking for something that will give you a "leg up" in prestige, get some kind of math degree from MIT.

Personally, I would advise choosing a university that offers multiple things - not simply aviation. There is a big world out there - as a professional pilot you are going to have numerous opportunities to lose your profession (physicals every six months, competency checks, etc) on a regular basis. Perhaps it makes sense to have a degree that can be used in some field outside of aviation, which is admittedly and unstable field. Just my thoughts.
 
I'll agree networking is important, but I've also gotten on at every place I applied (instructor, FO, etc) and I DIDN'T go to Riddle. Honestly, this argument is a lot like "There hasn't been another terrorist even in the US, so Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld were right." Just because it happened/hasn't happened doesn't mean things would have been different the other way. I'm inclined to believe the networking, in your situation, was more advantageous than the Riddle degree. I know Colgan and XJ really don't care. :)

Didn't that Colgan group got bought out by someone? :) Some memphis group, I can't remember now. :)

While I do agree with you Kell, I thought the posters were trying to infer that Riddle would actually hurt your career because of the "kind of people that go through" so I wanted to make it clear I didn't have any problems. If I inferred too much I apologize. Riddle has some great internship programs, I feel it does set them apart and that does make them better than the typical 4 year school without a flight program. Riddle vs UND or any number of colleges with a flight program I don't know if there is a difference.
 
Well....
lots of responses. So my guess is that ERAU overall is hyped up and not really a better school in terms of academics.

Can't say it is academically bad, the price of admission isn't worth what you get though. I did riddle online and got my ratings though other flight schools. Riddle online is fine, but the campus is way too expensive. The online courses were good and does take some form of discipline to complete.
 
It was a great education. It gave me a good foundation for what has so far been a good career. MSG me if you want more info.

No Go Gary...LOL. How did I ever forget about that guy!
 
If I were the OP, I would not try to go for an aviation degree unless you had all the money yourself in pocket or your parents were willing to pay everything for you. The reason being is cost compared to the benefits. Even at universities that have aviation programs at in-state rates, the flying runs 40-60K by itself. Then you need to add about 20-25K for tuition over 4 years then room, board, car is necessary usually because airports are off campus normally and you will need the flexibility to fly when outside of labs to get done in time, and you will likely have other expenses. So even for a state university, having close to 50-60K in debt or more is not impossible to have. At Riddle, it will be close to 200K for tuition, room, board, flying. I know 5 people that went to or are still at Riddle. 3 are still flight instructors at my local school now after almost 2 years after graduation making 15-20K a year. 1 is there on a military ROTC scholarship for grad school with a USAF flight slot waiting for him after and the other comes from a well to do family from a foreign country and has an A320 FO job waiting for him in a foreign country when he graduates.

When you actually get to a regional airline, you will at most places work for between 20-25K. If you are lucky and find a regional in growth mode, you can upgrade quickly in 3 years or less and be making around 60-70K and after you get your 1000 TPIC you wait for one of the majors to hire and call you for an interview. This can take a while or the call never comes. It should be said that these days the regionals with the quickest upgrade time have the worst work rules a good portion of the time. Places like Eagle, Comair, and Xjet that have good work rules and better than average FO pay all have upgrade times ranging from 5-10 years. This means that at AE for example, there are FOs that have been there 10 years and still make 40K a year. With the industry movement towards larger regional jets such as the CRJ-700/900 and EMB175/190, this means less jobs at mainline and a career at the regionals more likely.

Many pilots got into a lot of debt to get into the last hiring boom. Many got furloughed and are in hard times with a lot of debt. Some have a CFI and a degree and others put all their eggs in one basket. Furloughs in this industry are very common and so are airline failures. The chances are good that you will face a furlough or be furloughed. In the airlines, there are no lateral moves that can protect your pay level if you want to move elsewhere. This downturn is different than others because corporate and the fracs got hit very hard and this adds to competition for jobs and creates less jobs available as a whole in the industry. Netjets has 500 on furlough or about to hit the street last I checked. In the regionals, the regionals you want to be at like Comair and Xjet have 300 and 250 on furlough. It will take a few years at least before these guys hire. AE probably will hire this year but with all the furloughed Mesa and other guys they wont have much hiring if any outside of those with 121 experience though those that do get hired are facing many years before upgrading to captain. Many will disagree with me but I say it is better to take the long route and wait for the good regionals to hire instead of taking a job at a regional with crappy work rules because it is very possible that the regionals will be a career job for a good number as well as the fact that it will be far more enjoyable to you if you can enjoy your time as a young regional FO.

I will briefly mention that the requirements for getting the job may be changing big time. There is a chance that Congress will mandate ATP for hire along with specific number of multi/icing conditions time. This means CFIing will probably not be enough to get the 1500 hours plus X country and multi/bad weather time so 135 freight/pax flying will be necessary to get the regional job. 135 pax/freight often times have training contracts that tie you down for a few years. So when thinking about the job remember that if you go to an aviation university it could very well take 3-5 years or more after graduation on poverty level wages before you can even apply for a job at a regional. CFI competition is very stiff and time is hard to come by in many places because training is down in numbers and aircraft very expensive so fewer career and leisure pilots are learning to fly.

My advice is to get a degree in something useful outside of aviation. Even more than that get experience in another field. Having a BA these days is like having a high school diploma in the 1970s. Its the bare minimum for most places that pay well. You will likely need experience in a field or a MA because many want to see this before hiring you into any job that pays good money should you need a good paying job following a furlough. Consider the military. The Air Force and National Guard are great places to get flying experience or life experience. I had a CAL pilot tell me if he were a business owner or on a hiring board he would hire Air Force guys first and then Marines because of the training and life experience they have. Army guys that have been in Iraq and Afghanistan tell me the Air Force is great to find a skill usable in a career and they all wish they had gone to the Air Force. Why do I say all this? The airlines furlough frequently and go out of business all the time. ~1900 pilots at AA have been on furlough since 2001/2002 with several years before they all come back to property. The last thing you want to do is get furloughed and have no choice but to take a job at a 20K paying regional when you have been making as much as 120K at another place. I believe that some guys after Aloha went down applied at Great Lakes as an FO who pays 14K a year!!! for the position. Also, if the airline you are at cuts pay by a lot or starts to take away work rules, you need to be able to walk away and say "screw this" and get another job in another industry. Its sad to see people complain about this industry and not quit because they cant do anything else or have too much time or money invested.

With the degree, find a job in another field and gain experience in it while learning to fly and instructing on the side. It may take longer this way but you will be able to go to the airlines or 135 operations with little to no debt and maybe even some money built up to help get you through the first few years at a regional without having to rent crashpads with 10 people or living at home with your parents. Airlines generally do not mind how old you are unless you are too close to retirement. Airlines are not the only career jobs too. Many corporate and 135 jobs pay well and have good schedules. The goal with getting into the airlines needs to be to do it without getting into a lot of debt. A plan B is also necessary so you can fall back on something when you get furloughed, lose your medical or retire at 65.

My final advice is to have fun!!! Choose the route that allows you to enjoy flying and has the least stress. You are young and have a lot of time to get to the airlines. Keep an open to mind to careers in aviation outside the airlines such as corporate, fracs, 135, ATC, flight dispatch. Try to find a career outside of aviation in another field you like so you can pay for flying on your own and enjoy the flight training and instructor time. The training and instructor time will be among your best times in aviation because you go to a lot of interesting places and have students to talk to when you go for hundred dollar hamburger cross countries and will have a group of people to be friendly with. I know some instructors have had students that offer to pay for dinner or lunch on these flights. It is great for networking for any job because sometimes your students are the CEO or owner of a company that is hiring new workers. At the airlines, it is more difficult to make friends because you are often living in different cities than your co-workers and after a long day flying some just want to go sleep and not socialize.

It is kind of sad how so many are so desperate to be an airline pilot that they go through so much time, money and effort at a young age to get those epaulets on their shoulder only to find that the FO job isnt what they thought it would be and then worry about being in debt and not being able to live on their own and go out and enjoy their young life. What this industry needs more than anything else are pilots that are well educated and in demand in other industries and also that are more than willing to leave or turn down airline jobs if the pay and work rules arent just right. The simple fact is as long as pilots see the airlines as a hobby that gives them a rush or high and not career like any other industry, the pay will be low due to supply and demand. ATP for hire age 65 or even a bad economy will not change the desire many have to fly a jet or wear the uniform. Only changing the way people view the industry will bring about good changes. I told my grandmother what pilots make and she told me I was either 1) lying or 2) pilots are stupid idiots for taking the job with that responsibility and training for such low pay.

Also, keep in mind that in the next 10-20 years a number of things will be changing. ATC will be phasing out VOR/NDB and moving entirely to GPS/ILS. This will make navigating simply flying point to point on the moving map and direct routes. If technology continues to advance, the aircraft will have more automation and be easier to train new pilots to safely fly. If the coming retirements coupled with any large growth globally and nationally combine, some say there could have a big need or even a shortage. Already, airlines in Asia are testing out Multi-Crew Pilot License training where cadets learn to be FOs and not GA pilots. ALPA supports this kind of training. It is very possible MCPL training could take off in the coming 5-10 years and be run by the airlines or even paid by the airlines if the demand is great enough. I know if these things are even a possibility in the not too distant future and I am young enough to wait it out a few years to see if this happens, it is best to not take a large loan to learn to fly when soon people could have an easy or free route to the job. It is pointless to rush into a career that pays so little that pilots cant afford their own hotel room for a night. There is enough time to do this and still learn to fly on the side with your own money. Patience is a huge virtue in this industry and now is a good time to be patient while things work themselves out in the industry and economy as a whole.
 
If I were the OP, I would not try to go for an aviation degree unless you had all the money yourself in pocket or your parents were willing to pay everything for you. The reason being is cost compared to the benefits. Even at universities that have aviation programs at in-state rates, the flying runs 40-60K by itself. Then you need to add about 20-25K for tuition over 4 years then room, board, car is necessary usually because airports are off campus normally and you will need the flexibility to fly when outside of labs to get done in time, and you will likely have other expenses. So even for a state university, having close to 50-60K in debt or more is not impossible to have. At Riddle, it will be close to 200K for tuition, room, board, flying. I know 5 people that went to or are still at Riddle. 3 are still flight instructors at my local school now after almost 2 years after graduation making 15-20K a year. 1 is there on a military ROTC scholarship for grad school with a USAF flight slot waiting for him after and the other comes from a well to do family from a foreign country and has an A320 FO job waiting for him in a foreign country when he graduates.

When you actually get to a regional airline, you will at most places work for between 20-25K. If you are lucky and find a regional in growth mode, you can upgrade quickly in 3 years or less and be making around 60-70K and after you get your 1000 TPIC you wait for one of the majors to hire and call you for an interview. This can take a while or the call never comes. It should be said that these days the regionals with the quickest upgrade time have the worst work rules a good portion of the time. Places like Eagle, Comair, and Xjet that have good work rules and better than average FO pay all have upgrade times ranging from 5-10 years. This means that at AE for example, there are FOs that have been there 10 years and still make 40K a year. With the industry movement towards larger regional jets such as the CRJ-700/900 and EMB175/190, this means less jobs at mainline and a career at the regionals more likely.

Many pilots got into a lot of debt to get into the last hiring boom. Many got furloughed and are in hard times with a lot of debt. Some have a CFI and a degree and others put all their eggs in one basket. Furloughs in this industry are very common and so are airline failures. The chances are good that you will face a furlough or be furloughed. In the airlines, there are no lateral moves that can protect your pay level if you want to move elsewhere. This downturn is different than others because corporate and the fracs got hit very hard and this adds to competition for jobs and creates less jobs available as a whole in the industry. Netjets has 500 on furlough or about to hit the street last I checked. In the regionals, the regionals you want to be at like Comair and Xjet have 300 and 250 on furlough. It will take a few years at least before these guys hire. AE probably will hire this year but with all the furloughed Mesa and other guys they wont have much hiring if any outside of those with 121 experience though those that do get hired are facing many years before upgrading to captain. Many will disagree with me but I say it is better to take the long route and wait for the good regionals to hire instead of taking a job at a regional with crappy work rules because it is very possible that the regionals will be a career job for a good number as well as the fact that it will be far more enjoyable to you if you can enjoy your time as a young regional FO.

I will briefly mention that the requirements for getting the job may be changing big time. There is a chance that Congress will mandate ATP for hire along with specific number of multi/icing conditions time. This means CFIing will probably not be enough to get the 1500 hours plus X country and multi/bad weather time so 135 freight/pax flying will be necessary to get the regional job. 135 pax/freight often times have training contracts that tie you down for a few years. So when thinking about the job remember that if you go to an aviation university it could very well take 3-5 years or more after graduation on poverty level wages before you can even apply for a job at a regional. CFI competition is very stiff and time is hard to come by in many places because training is down in numbers and aircraft very expensive so fewer career and leisure pilots are learning to fly.

My advice is to get a degree in something useful outside of aviation. Even more than that get experience in another field. Having a BA these days is like having a high school diploma in the 1970s. Its the bare minimum for most places that pay well. You will likely need experience in a field or a MA because many want to see this before hiring you into any job that pays good money should you need a good paying job following a furlough. Consider the military. The Air Force and National Guard are great places to get flying experience or life experience. I had a CAL pilot tell me if he were a business owner or on a hiring board he would hire Air Force guys first and then Marines because of the training and life experience they have. Army guys that have been in Iraq and Afghanistan tell me the Air Force is great to find a skill usable in a career and they all wish they had gone to the Air Force. Why do I say all this? The airlines furlough frequently and go out of business all the time. ~1900 pilots at AA have been on furlough since 2001/2002 with several years before they all come back to property. The last thing you want to do is get furloughed and have no choice but to take a job at a 20K paying regional when you have been making as much as 120K at another place. I believe that some guys after Aloha went down applied at Great Lakes as an FO who pays 14K a year!!! for the position. Also, if the airline you are at cuts pay by a lot or starts to take away work rules, you need to be able to walk away and say "screw this" and get another job in another industry. Its sad to see people complain about this industry and not quit because they cant do anything else or have too much time or money invested.

With the degree, find a job in another field and gain experience in it while learning to fly and instructing on the side. It may take longer this way but you will be able to go to the airlines or 135 operations with little to no debt and maybe even some money built up to help get you through the first few years at a regional without having to rent crashpads with 10 people or living at home with your parents. Airlines generally do not mind how old you are unless you are too close to retirement. Airlines are not the only career jobs too. Many corporate and 135 jobs pay well and have good schedules. The goal with getting into the airlines needs to be to do it without getting into a lot of debt. A plan B is also necessary so you can fall back on something when you get furloughed, lose your medical or retire at 65.

My final advice is to have fun!!! Choose the route that allows you to enjoy flying and has the least stress. You are young and have a lot of time to get to the airlines. Keep an open to mind to careers in aviation outside the airlines such as corporate, fracs, 135, ATC, flight dispatch. Try to find a career outside of aviation in another field you like so you can pay for flying on your own and enjoy the flight training and instructor time. The training and instructor time will be among your best times in aviation because you go to a lot of interesting places and have students to talk to when you go for hundred dollar hamburger cross countries and will have a group of people to be friendly with. I know some instructors have had students that offer to pay for dinner or lunch on these flights. It is great for networking for any job because sometimes your students are the CEO or owner of a company that is hiring new workers. At the airlines, it is more difficult to make friends because you are often living in different cities than your co-workers and after a long day flying some just want to go sleep and not socialize.

It is kind of sad how so many are so desperate to be an airline pilot that they go through so much time, money and effort at a young age to get those epaulets on their shoulder only to find that the FO job isnt what they thought it would be and then worry about being in debt and not being able to live on their own and go out and enjoy their young life. What this industry needs more than anything else are pilots that are well educated and in demand in other industries and also that are more than willing to leave or turn down airline jobs if the pay and work rules arent just right. The simple fact is as long as pilots see the airlines as a hobby that gives them a rush or high and not career like any other industry, the pay will be low due to supply and demand. ATP for hire age 65 or even a bad economy will not change the desire many have to fly a jet or wear the uniform. Only changing the way people view the industry will bring about good changes. I told my grandmother what pilots make and she told me I was either 1) lying or 2) pilots are stupid idiots for taking the job with that responsibility and training for such low pay.

Also, keep in mind that in the next 10-20 years a number of things will be changing. ATC will be phasing out VOR/NDB and moving entirely to GPS/ILS. This will make navigating simply flying point to point on the moving map and direct routes. If technology continues to advance, the aircraft will have more automation and be easier to train new pilots to safely fly. If the coming retirements coupled with any large growth globally and nationally combine, some say there could have a big need or even a shortage. Already, airlines in Asia are testing out Multi-Crew Pilot License training where cadets learn to be FOs and not GA pilots. ALPA supports this kind of training. It is very possible MCPL training could take off in the coming 5-10 years and be run by the airlines or even paid by the airlines if the demand is great enough. I know if these things are even a possibility in the not too distant future and I am young enough to wait it out a few years to see if this happens, it is best to not take a large loan to learn to fly when soon people could have an easy or free route to the job. It is pointless to rush into a career that pays so little that pilots cant afford their own hotel room for a night. There is enough time to do this and still learn to fly on the side with your own money. Patience is a huge virtue in this industry and now is a good time to be patient while things work themselves out in the industry and economy as a whole.



Since we know that regional pilots are honest, that means your grandmother is very insightful and wise.
 
If I were the OP, I would not try to go for an aviation degree unless you had all the money yourself in pocket or your parents were willing to pay everything for you. The reason being is cost compared to the benefits. Even at universities that have aviation programs at in-state rates, the flying runs 40-60K by itself. Then you need to add about 20-25K for tuition over 4 years then room, board, car is necessary usually because airports are off campus normally and you will need the flexibility to fly when outside of labs to get done in time, and you will likely have other expenses. So even for a state university, having close to 50-60K in debt or more is not impossible to have. At Riddle, it will be close to 200K for tuition, room, board, flying. I know 5 people that went to or are still at Riddle. 3 are still flight instructors at my local school now after almost 2 years after graduation making 15-20K a year. 1 is there on a military ROTC scholarship for grad school with a USAF flight slot waiting for him after and the other comes from a well to do family from a foreign country and has an A320 FO job waiting for him in a foreign country when he graduates.

When you actually get to a regional airline, you will at most places work for between 20-25K. If you are lucky and find a regional in growth mode, you can upgrade quickly in 3 years or less and be making around 60-70K and after you get your 1000 TPIC you wait for one of the majors to hire and call you for an interview. This can take a while or the call never comes. It should be said that these days the regionals with the quickest upgrade time have the worst work rules a good portion of the time. Places like Eagle, Comair, and Xjet that have good work rules and better than average FO pay all have upgrade times ranging from 5-10 years. This means that at AE for example, there are FOs that have been there 10 years and still make 40K a year. With the industry movement towards larger regional jets such as the CRJ-700/900 and EMB175/190, this means less jobs at mainline and a career at the regionals more likely.

Many pilots got into a lot of debt to get into the last hiring boom. Many got furloughed and are in hard times with a lot of debt. Some have a CFI and a degree and others put all their eggs in one basket. Furloughs in this industry are very common and so are airline failures. The chances are good that you will face a furlough or be furloughed. In the airlines, there are no lateral moves that can protect your pay level if you want to move elsewhere. This downturn is different than others because corporate and the fracs got hit very hard and this adds to competition for jobs and creates less jobs available as a whole in the industry. Netjets has 500 on furlough or about to hit the street last I checked. In the regionals, the regionals you want to be at like Comair and Xjet have 300 and 250 on furlough. It will take a few years at least before these guys hire. AE probably will hire this year but with all the furloughed Mesa and other guys they wont have much hiring if any outside of those with 121 experience though those that do get hired are facing many years before upgrading to captain. Many will disagree with me but I say it is better to take the long route and wait for the good regionals to hire instead of taking a job at a regional with crappy work rules because it is very possible that the regionals will be a career job for a good number as well as the fact that it will be far more enjoyable to you if you can enjoy your time as a young regional FO.

I will briefly mention that the requirements for getting the job may be changing big time. There is a chance that Congress will mandate ATP for hire along with specific number of multi/icing conditions time. This means CFIing will probably not be enough to get the 1500 hours plus X country and multi/bad weather time so 135 freight/pax flying will be necessary to get the regional job. 135 pax/freight often times have training contracts that tie you down for a few years. So when thinking about the job remember that if you go to an aviation university it could very well take 3-5 years or more after graduation on poverty level wages before you can even apply for a job at a regional. CFI competition is very stiff and time is hard to come by in many places because training is down in numbers and aircraft very expensive so fewer career and leisure pilots are learning to fly.

My advice is to get a degree in something useful outside of aviation. Even more than that get experience in another field. Having a BA these days is like having a high school diploma in the 1970s. Its the bare minimum for most places that pay well. You will likely need experience in a field or a MA because many want to see this before hiring you into any job that pays good money should you need a good paying job following a furlough. Consider the military. The Air Force and National Guard are great places to get flying experience or life experience. I had a CAL pilot tell me if he were a business owner or on a hiring board he would hire Air Force guys first and then Marines because of the training and life experience they have. Army guys that have been in Iraq and Afghanistan tell me the Air Force is great to find a skill usable in a career and they all wish they had gone to the Air Force. Why do I say all this? The airlines furlough frequently and go out of business all the time. ~1900 pilots at AA have been on furlough since 2001/2002 with several years before they all come back to property. The last thing you want to do is get furloughed and have no choice but to take a job at a 20K paying regional when you have been making as much as 120K at another place. I believe that some guys after Aloha went down applied at Great Lakes as an FO who pays 14K a year!!! for the position. Also, if the airline you are at cuts pay by a lot or starts to take away work rules, you need to be able to walk away and say "screw this" and get another job in another industry. Its sad to see people complain about this industry and not quit because they cant do anything else or have too much time or money invested.

With the degree, find a job in another field and gain experience in it while learning to fly and instructing on the side. It may take longer this way but you will be able to go to the airlines or 135 operations with little to no debt and maybe even some money built up to help get you through the first few years at a regional without having to rent crashpads with 10 people or living at home with your parents. Airlines generally do not mind how old you are unless you are too close to retirement. Airlines are not the only career jobs too. Many corporate and 135 jobs pay well and have good schedules. The goal with getting into the airlines needs to be to do it without getting into a lot of debt. A plan B is also necessary so you can fall back on something when you get furloughed, lose your medical or retire at 65.

My final advice is to have fun!!! Choose the route that allows you to enjoy flying and has the least stress. You are young and have a lot of time to get to the airlines. Keep an open to mind to careers in aviation outside the airlines such as corporate, fracs, 135, ATC, flight dispatch. Try to find a career outside of aviation in another field you like so you can pay for flying on your own and enjoy the flight training and instructor time. The training and instructor time will be among your best times in aviation because you go to a lot of interesting places and have students to talk to when you go for hundred dollar hamburger cross countries and will have a group of people to be friendly with. I know some instructors have had students that offer to pay for dinner or lunch on these flights. It is great for networking for any job because sometimes your students are the CEO or owner of a company that is hiring new workers. At the airlines, it is more difficult to make friends because you are often living in different cities than your co-workers and after a long day flying some just want to go sleep and not socialize.

It is kind of sad how so many are so desperate to be an airline pilot that they go through so much time, money and effort at a young age to get those epaulets on their shoulder only to find that the FO job isnt what they thought it would be and then worry about being in debt and not being able to live on their own and go out and enjoy their young life. What this industry needs more than anything else are pilots that are well educated and in demand in other industries and also that are more than willing to leave or turn down airline jobs if the pay and work rules arent just right. The simple fact is as long as pilots see the airlines as a hobby that gives them a rush or high and not career like any other industry, the pay will be low due to supply and demand. ATP for hire age 65 or even a bad economy will not change the desire many have to fly a jet or wear the uniform. Only changing the way people view the industry will bring about good changes. I told my grandmother what pilots make and she told me I was either 1) lying or 2) pilots are stupid idiots for taking the job with that responsibility and training for such low pay.

Also, keep in mind that in the next 10-20 years a number of things will be changing. ATC will be phasing out VOR/NDB and moving entirely to GPS/ILS. This will make navigating simply flying point to point on the moving map and direct routes. If technology continues to advance, the aircraft will have more automation and be easier to train new pilots to safely fly. If the coming retirements coupled with any large growth globally and nationally combine, some say there could have a big need or even a shortage. Already, airlines in Asia are testing out Multi-Crew Pilot License training where cadets learn to be FOs and not GA pilots. ALPA supports this kind of training. It is very possible MCPL training could take off in the coming 5-10 years and be run by the airlines or even paid by the airlines if the demand is great enough. I know if these things are even a possibility in the not too distant future and I am young enough to wait it out a few years to see if this happens, it is best to not take a large loan to learn to fly when soon people could have an easy or free route to the job. It is pointless to rush into a career that pays so little that pilots cant afford their own hotel room for a night. There is enough time to do this and still learn to fly on the side with your own money. Patience is a huge virtue in this industry and now is a good time to be patient while things work themselves out in the industry and economy as a whole.



Does this mean that Riddle is going to relocate to Buffalo?
 
Since we know that regional pilots are honest, that means your grandmother is very insightful and wise.

Come on man...:dunno:

That's a long way to go for a chance to knock regional pilots....
how about instead, with all of your great wisdom and knowledge, you respond to the OP about whether or not a college degree would help him get one of them there great jobs like you have... so they may become the bestest airline pilot in the world...

or you could just just be quiet.
 
Come on man...:dunno:

That's a long way to go for a chance to knock regional pilots....
how about instead, with all of your great wisdom and knowledge, you respond to the OP about whether or not a college degree would help him get one of them there great jobs like you have... so they may become the bestest airline pilot in the world...

or you could just just be quiet.

It's well understood that a college degree in anything will help him with a prospective airline career. I was merely agreeing with the grandmother's words.
 
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