Electronic E6-Bs

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Skyfox44

New Member
As a college professor and industry professional, I would like to set the record straight on something. Electronic E6-Bs have been approved since the late 70s when Jeppesen introduced the AveStar electronic E6-B. Then in 1980, ASA came out with the CX-1. So let's just stop all this foolishness and follow the FAA Orders and regulations. FAA Order 8080.6H very plainly states that electronic E6-Bs are approved and have been for over 45 years.
So what is all this stuff about students who can't use them? To start with most instructors do not know anything about teaching. Many state they are teaching OLD SCHOOL, sorry but there is no OLD SCHOOL. No instructor, examiner, testing center, or any other person has the right to tell students they can't use an electronic E6-B. I teach well over a hundred students a year and I have been using electronic E6-Bs for many years. However many of my students have told me their instructor has told them electronic E6-Bs are outlawed, forbidden, or were never approved is just very uninformed.
Teaching, instructing, or training people is all about using the most modern approach and modern materials available. This does not mean spending hours trying to teach something that is 88+ years old. The old E6-b is just a slide rule from the 1600s changed to a circle wiz rule in 1936. So lets stop wasting time giving students bad advice and start teaching to standards and rules by the FAA or go play pickleball.
 
I’d have more issue with someone saying they can’t use a manual e6b… plenty still teaching with those
 
Skyfox44 said:
As a college professor and industry professional, I would like to set the record straight on something. Electronic E6-Bs have been approved since the late 70s when Jeppesen introduced the AveStar electronic E6-B. Then in 1980, ASA came out with the CX-1. So let's just stop all this foolishness and follow the FAA Orders and regulations. FAA Order 8080.6H very plainly states that electronic E6-Bs are approved and have been for over 45 years.
So what is all this stuff about students who can't use them? To start with most instructors do not know anything about teaching. Many state they are teaching OLD SCHOOL, sorry but there is no OLD SCHOOL. No instructor, examiner, testing center, or any other person has the right to tell students they can't use an electronic E6-B. I teach well over a hundred students a year and I have been using electronic E6-Bs for many years. However many of my students have told me their instructor has told them electronic E6-Bs are outlawed, forbidden, or were never approved is just very uninformed.
Teaching, instructing, or training people is all about using the most modern approach and modern materials available. This does not mean spending hours trying to teach something that is 88+ years old. The old E6-b is just a slide rule from the 1600s changed to a circle wiz rule in 1936. So lets stop wasting time giving students bad advice and start teaching to standards and rules by the FAA or go play pickleball.
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look man, I just just like math, airplanes, and E6-Bs definitely fall into the intersection...
 
@Skyfox44 well I'm glad you're passionate about something that.. *clears throat*...NO ONE CARES ABOUT

FTR...when I was doing my PPL and the rest of my ratings 2002-05 (pt 91 and pt135)...we couldn't use a digital E6-B because we had to demonstrate our knowledge, only after could we use it and that was just for time building purposes. (i.e. the student XC's)

but hey you do you...welcome to JC!
 
CFIT99 said:
@Skyfox44 well I'm glad you're passionate about something that.. *clears throat*...NO ONE CARES ABOUT

FTR...when I was doing my PPL and the rest of my ratings 2002-05 (pt 91 and pt135)...we couldn't use a digital E6-B because we had to demonstrate our knowledge, only after could we use it and that was just for time building purposes. (i.e. the student XC's)

but hey you do you...welcome to JC!
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I mean the thread on ‘raw data’ VOR approaches definitely has more meat to it…
 
moxiepilot said:
Tell me you work at Riddle without telling me you work at Riddle...
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I went to Riddel and Have a bachelor's in Professional Aeronautics, with a double minor in Aerospace Aviation Safety and Business Management a master's in Aviation Leadership Management, and a bachelor's in Education and an Allied Health degree as a physician assistant and have been teaching for decades. YOUR SKILLS because by the sounds of it you could not hack Riddle
 
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Skyfox44 said:
I went to Riddel and Have a bachelor's in Professional Aeronautics, with a double minor in Aerospace Aviation Safety and Business Management a master's in Aviation Leadership Management, and a bachelor's in Education and an Allied Health degree as a physician assistant and have been teaching for decades. YOUR SKILLS because by the sounds of it you could not hack Riddle
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Yeah. I can tell you're very academic. Good job buddy.

Let me put it a different way. I didn't join a forum with my first post being my thoughts on what I think needs to happen like a 60 year old Karen. I read the room, eased in and fit into the community as it presented itself.

If you think I need to justify my credentials, it goes back to reading the room.

Welcome to JC
 
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I'd also say that the vast majority of the problems you solve with an E6-B are these sort of basic algebra problems... like you should be able to do moth of them with a pencil and maybe a calculator.

but, side idea... what are some common calculations that aren't very convenient with an e6b, like to make this thread not a pro-riddle anti-riddle pissing contest, if we were going to remake the e6b for the modern era, what would we want?

Then, could we do that with a mechanical calculator? Let's dream up something cool instead of crapping on the new guy.
 
ppragman said:
, if we were going to remake the e6b for the modern era, what would we want?
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ForeFlight. We would want ForeFlight. Something I use every day, and am still finding easier ways to do things with. Logbook, W&B, Performance calculations, fuel calculations, crosswinds -- it does a lot. Having it linked to my GPS with Bluetooth is so useful, that I won't own another airplane that doesn't have that.

E6B's (electronic or otherwise), are just about as obsolete as paper charts. Which I know are obsolete, because just about everywhere has stopped stocking them.

I think it can be good to teach older techniques, like using a sextant, or calculating speed with a Tachymeter, etc. I don't think it is going to make anyone a better pilot.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
ForeFlight. We would want ForeFlight. Something I use every day, and am still finding easier ways to do things with. Logbook, W&B, Performance calculations, fuel calculations, crosswinds -- it does a lot. Having it linked to my GPS with Bluetooth is so useful, that I won't own another airplane that doesn't have that.

E6B's (electronic or otherwise), are just about as obsolete as paper charts. Which I know are obsolete, because just about everywhere has stopped stocking them.

I think it can be good to teach older techniques, like using a sextant, or calculating speed with a Tachymeter, etc. I don't think it is going to make anyone a better pilot.
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You're absolutely right that tool is foreflight. Foreflight is incredible. It'd be really cool to be the UI/UX guy for them... but I digress. Regardless, that's totally fair and in a perfect world you should be able to use ForeFlight on the written, but like, let's just as a thought exercise come up with a new tool?

Maybe we get really nerdy and try to make some simple calculators and tools incase the iPad goes tits up? Or maybe we just learn something new because we play around with the math a little bit? I think it would be fun. I've got a 3d printer, if we can get the measurements right I can print out anything (as long as it's smaller than a 10" cube).

I don't know if it made me a better pilot, but I think learning to read some of the constellations and take sights made me a bit of a better navigator? It at least made me appreciate things like GPS better.

Maybe we try to make a different sort of calculator. Like, I still have all the PC12 performance data in a spreadsheet, maybe we could fit a few curves and make a landing distance slide rule? Or, maybe something else? Like, maybe we can all get really nerdy into Kerbal Space Program (too late, already there), or Orbiter, and we could make a suicide burn calculator slide-rule for various bodies? I don't know, we'd have to talk about it, and maybe we'd learn something cool about math or performance data, or something.

I know this is the CFI place, and I'm not a CFI, but let's get nerdy!
 
ppragman said:
I don't know if it made me a better pilot, but I think learning to read some of the constellations and take sights made me a bit of a better navigator? It at least made me appreciate things like GPS better.
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I took the Coast Guard Captain exams not too long ago, they still have you use a plotter and dividers on paper charts with lat/long to plot a course, speeds, etc. Something I expect to do exactly never on a boat, since they all have chartplotters now. I did score 100% on it somehow.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
I took the Coast Guard Captain exams not too long ago, they still have you use a plotter and dividers on paper charts with lat/long to plot a course, speeds, etc. Something I expect to do exactly never on a boat, since they all have chartplotters now. I did score 100% on it somehow.
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have you seen Savvy Navvy? Kind of a fun app if you're a boat person
 
ppragman said:
have you seen Savvy Navvy? Kind of a fun app if you're a boat person
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I see more people using Navionics, but I mostly stick with the chartplotter that's hooked up to the autohelm. Sailed from St Augustine to Marsh Harbor, Bahamas a few months ago. Didn't sink or get lost :)
 
drunkenbeagle said:
I see more people using Navionics, but I mostly stick with the chartplotter that's hooked up to the autohelm. Sailed from St Augustine to Marsh Harbor, Bahamas a few months ago. Didn't sink or get lost :)
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That's so cool, my wife and I just got into this a few months ago, it's been too cold and hard to find boats though to get a chance to play more... thinking about just buying a boat... but money and time and...
 
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