EgyptAir 804 Missing

[Adler]

reddit threads about tourism in Egypt are always entertaining. I’d love to see the pyramids but Egypt just doesn’t sound like it’s worth the hassle, especially if you’re a woman.

From a 2018 trip:

After a cooling off period, I again tried the Egyptian Museum. I left disappointed, again. After buying a ticket leaving my camera at the hostel, we walked the museum only to come across yet more guards deep within; the famous section with the mummies and golden masks costs an additional fee not mentioned anywhere up to that point. (My first try at the museum after buying a ticket, going through numerous checkpoints, waiting in line, and more checkpoints, I was told I needed to pay double the initial cost because I had a small camera).

The place is all about money. At the museum the bathroom cleaner walked out of the women's restroom to insist I tip him. At least he was doing some work, a day before a guy came up to us just straight up saying “I like your money”. At dinner a little girl came up to us, my offered her pieces of the huge pizza like dish of the pharaohs that he hasn't even touched yet.

“Give me dollar” she said.

The pyramids even have fake police that “inspect” your ticket, and then charge you to get it back.

It really is a shame. This country has some good people, struggling to get by in their tanking economy so dependent on tourism. The hostel workers that let us store bags and spend an afternoon at the hostel even though weren’t staying there, or the genuinely fantastic people enthusiastically who served us plate after plate of free dinner at the hotel alongside the pyramids because it was the holes 1 year birthday. But the constant threat of scams and hustling that is so engrained in the system that even the museums play the game forces you to keep your guard up and assume someone’s trying something — because 95% of the time they are.

Surprisingly, I have warmed up to Cairo, I’ve even grown to appreciate the adrenaline that comes with every street crossing — I only nearly got hit twice my last day, one time narrowly avoiding getting squished thanks to a friends quick tug on my shirt collar. And it's so convenient, to when finished with whatever, all you need to do is throw your trash on the ground. It's not like Vietnam we her Communism runs a system of old people with brooms sweeping the street constantly, in Egypt, the street like the country, is a garbage dump...everyone's doing it. The food is good and cheap, and the city as whole unlike anything I’ve seen yet, and having the pyramids basically to ourselves was incredible. But I still can’t recommend this place to people who just have that postcard picture of the pyramids in their mind.

 

[Wardogg]

From a 2018 trip:

After a cooling off period, I again tried the Egyptian Museum. I left disappointed, again. After buying a ticket leaving my camera at the hostel, we walked the museum only to come across yet more guards deep within; the famous section with the mummies and golden masks costs an additional fee not mentioned anywhere up to that point. (My first try at the museum after buying a ticket, going through numerous checkpoints, waiting in line, and more checkpoints, I was told I needed to pay double the initial cost because I had a small camera).

The place is all about money. At the museum the bathroom cleaner walked out of the women's restroom to insist I tip him. At least he was doing some work, a day before a guy came up to us just straight up saying “I like your money”. At dinner a little girl came up to us, my offered her pieces of the huge pizza like dish of the pharaohs that he hasn't even touched yet.

“Give me dollar” she said.

The pyramids even have fake police that “inspect” your ticket, and then charge you to get it back.

It really is a shame. This country has some good people, struggling to get by in their tanking economy so dependent on tourism. The hostel workers that let us store bags and spend an afternoon at the hostel even though weren’t staying there, or the genuinely fantastic people enthusiastically who served us plate after plate of free dinner at the hotel alongside the pyramids because it was the holes 1 year birthday. But the constant threat of scams and hustling that is so engrained in the system that even the museums play the game forces you to keep your guard up and assume someone’s trying something — because 95% of the time they are.

Surprisingly, I have warmed up to Cairo, I’ve even grown to appreciate the adrenaline that comes with every street crossing — I only nearly got hit twice my last day, one time narrowly avoiding getting squished thanks to a friends quick tug on my shirt collar. And it's so convenient, to when finished with whatever, all you need to do is throw your trash on the ground. It's not like Vietnam we her Communism runs a system of old people with brooms sweeping the street constantly, in Egypt, the street like the country, is a garbage dump...everyone's doing it. The food is good and cheap, and the city as whole unlike anything I’ve seen yet, and having the pyramids basically to ourselves was incredible. But I still can’t recommend this place to people who just have that postcard picture of the pyramids in their mind.

Wait a minute. This is shocking to people? Name a international large city that isn't this. All of it. Hell, most of the US large cities are becoming this.

 

[Murdoughnut]

Wait a minute. This is shocking to people? Name a international large city that isn't this. All of it. Hell, most of the US large cities are becoming this.

The real spirit of a city is typically found outside of the tourist traps, which is why we avoid them when we travel. My wife and I are very much the type to plant ourselves at a hotel in the business district and work our way out on foot or by public transit from there. You don't get the real story of a place from a cruise port any more than you get a sense of a person from their Youtube channel. We've gotten our kids on board as well - just did that in Boston two weeks ago too. While we did touch a few tourist spots for the kids, we generally just walked and took the subway, exploring each of the neighborhoods. My wife and I did that in Santiago, Chile for our honeymoon and decided that was how we'd travel. We took our kids to Amsterdam and did the same - even getting on trains and going outside the city to see proximate towns.

My personal hell is a cruise vacation to a Caribbean port, and my 9th circle of that hell is having to get off the ship at said port.

 

[Plata]

Wait a minute. This is shocking to people? Name a international large city that isn't this. All of it. Hell, most of the US large cities are becoming this.

From personal experience here’s a few cities that “aren’t that”
Hong Kong
Berlin
Rome
Florence
Munich
Paris
Belgrade
Santiago
Beijing
Frankfurt

 

[tcco94]

Well the armchair pilot Facebook community tells me "Boeing or I ain't going!!"...... as they book their Allegiant trip for $49

I thought this argument was for flight simmers with no flight experience what so ever

Pre-MAX… my comment aged liked fine wine

So did the “what’s going on with Airbus” comment

 

[NovemberEcho]

Wait a minute. This is shocking to people? Name a international large city that isn't this. All of it. Hell, most of the US large cities are becoming this.

that’s a pretty tame story compared to a lot of others. Threats for not receiving bribes, sexual harassment/assault, and old men asking to buy your daughters are the ones I was talking about which also seems to be commonplace. At least in Cairo.

 

[guywhoflies]

Wow! Looks like they are saying cigarette smoking by one of the pilots in the cockpit, caused a fire, due to a leaky oxygen mask in the cockpit, which brought down EgyptAir 804. In classical Egyptian fashion, the Egyptian officials want to deny the findings just like they did with 990. I will never fly on Egypt air as they never seem to want to admit any fault with any of their accidents and hence never fix their issues...

'Pilot's cigarette sparked blaze on EgyptAir jet that crashed in 2016'

Flight MS804 was bound from Paris's Charles de Gaulle airport to Cairo, but plunged into the sea between Crete and the northern coast of Egypt after disappearing from radars on May 19, 2016.

www.dailymail.co.uk

For those that stroke out at the thought of reading a Daily Mail article, here is a link to a much classier US publication.

Flight that crashed and killed 66 people was caused by pilot’s cigarette, investigation finds

 

[SteveC]

The real spirit of a city is typically found outside of the tourist traps, which is why we avoid them when we travel. My wife and I are very much the type to plant ourselves at a hotel in the business district and work our way out on foot or by public transit from there. You don't get the real story of a place from a cruise port any more than you get a sense of a person from their Youtube channel. We've gotten our kids on board as well - just did that in Boston two weeks ago too. While we did touch a few tourist spots for the kids, we generally just walked and took the subway, exploring each of the neighborhoods. My wife and I did that in Santiago, Chile for our honeymoon and decided that was how we'd travel. We took our kids to Amsterdam and did the same - even getting on trains and going outside the city to see proximate towns.

My personal hell is a cruise vacation to a Caribbean port, and my 9th circle of that hell is having to get off the ship at said port.

I like your style. The wife and I are doing a two week tour of the Baltic States here in a few weeks - will be doing a similar routine to get to know those countries.

Egypt has always been a tough tourist destination in some ways. I was there in the early 80's, working near Cairo on and off for about 6 months (and staying downtown), and had a great adventure, but it can be tough to figure out when and how to deal with a lot of "stuff". That's true of most third world countries though - they often fall well short of what many tourists from better parts of the world might be expecting. It's when we learn to adjust our expectations to reality that we can really get to know, and even enjoy, people who are working to survive in conditions that we can't understand.

 

[Bob Ridpath]

Been to a few places over the years: London, Paris, rural Germany with trips to Stuttgart, Cologne, Rottweil and places in between, Amsterdam, and any number of places throughout the continental US and Alaska.

The stories would likely be mundane to most and too long to type, but what journey this life has been.

My key to real satisfaction, which seemed to come naturally enough - whatever the locale - was wandering the streets, riding the trains, meeting strangers at bars and restaurants, and finding thereby wonderful exposure to “real life” rather than “tourist traps.”

I’m pretty much done traveling these days, preferring to focus on interests closer to home. I’ve enjoyed the company of amazing people without once ever being threatened or hit on, although my American ways DID occasionally call attention to my presence. Things always worked out well and happily in unusual but never dangerous situations that developed.

Maybe I’ve just been lucky, but to walk the streets of Weissach in Germany and to meet people there (and other places) far-eclipsed any interest I may have had to see the pyramids, or coliseum, or whatever. Certainly, YMMV.

 

[Adler]

Wait a minute. This is shocking to people? Name a international large city that isn't this. All of it. Hell, most of the US large cities are becoming this.

I'm a pretty well traveled person. Cafes in Kosovo are my happy place, I had a fantastic time backpacking Saudi Arabia as an American Jew. Cairo just about ties Istanbul and Venice, California for worst cities in the world.

Maybe I’ve just been lucky, but to walk the streets of Weissach in Germany and to meet people there (and other places) far-eclipsed any interest I may have had to see the pyramids, or coliseum, or whatever. Certainly, YMMV.

Yup. No desire to go, usually avoid places like that, but it was on the way to a month in Namibia, Tanzania, and Botswana.

 

[BobDDuck]

I'm a pretty well traveled person. Cafes in Kosovo are my happy place, I had a fantastic time backpacking Saudi Arabia as an American Jew. Cairo just about ties Istanbul and Venice, California, and Bucharest for worst cities in the world.

FIFY

 

[NovemberEcho]

Cairo just about ties Istanbul

Really? I’ve had nothing but great experiences in Istanbul, and Turkey in general. Although I did have my wife with me.

 

[Adler]

Really? I’ve had nothing but great experiences in Istanbul, and Turkey in general.

Istanbul, holly hell. There is no culture, it has all been destroyed by hustlers. It’s where the lists of scams to avoid are almost as long as the list of attractions. And yet millions of people a year come. One selfie in front of the Blue Mosque...mission accomplished. Even in the covid-nobody-traveling-days, Istanbul was the worst. Luckily we met up with friends also in town, and we went over to explore the much more tolerable Asian side.

We did a month in Turkey that last trip, and barely scratched the surface. The cities we visited: Mardin, Diyarbakir, Tatvan, Van, Dogubeyzit… they are all Kurdish cities, most with lots of Armenian history too. Having just come from Iraqi Kurdistan, we’d seen what crossing a border means for the Kurds. (You can't even safely say the word Kurdistan in Turkey, let alone speak in Kurdish.) Eastern Turkey was incredible, but Istanbul feels like a different country.

 

[Burrito]

Been to a few places over the years: London, Paris, rural Germany with trips to Stuttgart, Cologne, Rottweil and places in between, Amsterdam, and any number of places throughout the continental US and Alaska.

The stories would likely be mundane to most and too long to type, but what journey this life has been.

My key to real satisfaction, which seemed to come naturally enough - whatever the locale - was wandering the streets, riding the trains, meeting strangers at bars and restaurants, and finding thereby wonderful exposure to “real life” rather than “tourist traps.”

I’m pretty much done traveling these days, preferring to focus on interests closer to home. I’ve enjoyed the company of amazing people without once ever being threatened or hit on, although my American ways DID occasionally call attention to my presence. Things always worked out well and happily in unusual but never dangerous situations that developed.

Maybe I’ve just been lucky, but to walk the streets of Weissach in Germany and to meet people there (and other places) far-eclipsed any interest I may have had to see the pyramids, or coliseum, or whatever. Certainly, YMMV.

Stuttgart , Pforzheim, and Heidelberg were all this mind-boggling land of kindness and peace while I was visiting during World Cup. You get this image in your head of noise and partying but in reality the stories you hear is just. Living life. It truly was awesome.

 

[NovemberEcho]

Istanbul, holly hell. There is no culture, it has all been destroyed by hustlers. It’s where the lists of scams to avoid are almost as long as the list of attractions. And yet millions of people a year come. One selfie in front of the Blue Mosque...mission accomplished. Even in the covid-nobody-traveling-days, Istanbul was the worst. Luckily we met up with friends also in town, and we went over to explore the much more tolerable Asian side.

We did a month in Turkey that last trip, and barely scratched the surface. The cities we visited: Mardin, Diyarbakir, Tatvan, Van, Dogubeyzit… they are all Kurdish cities, most with lots of Armenian history too. Having just come from Iraqi Kurdistan, we’d seen what crossing a border means for the Kurds. (You can't even safely say the word Kurdistan in Turkey, let alone speak in Kurdish.) Eastern Turkey was incredible, but Istanbul feels like a different country.

interesting.That hasn’t been my experience at all, but I can def see where being with a local can change the dynamic. I am going for all of June this year. Only a few days in Istanbul, then Safronbolu to visit the in-laws, then 3 glorious weeks on the Mediterranean around Kas. We did Bodrum last time along with a 12 hour road trip to Safronbolu.