Effect of Phil Trenery Still Being Felt

B200 Hawk said:
Sir Sean has spoken, really nothing new. Check AirMail.
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Summary: We're losing our shirts on the 9E -900 flying for Delta and the United Q400. Translation: Phil can't negotiate a contract worth a damn and wasn't worth the salary he was drawing. The profitable contracts come from XJ and the -200 "extension" contract that was signed in 2007 between 9E and NWA. Phil didn't have to work to hard on that one. NWA more or less gave it to us. I think the only stipulation he tossed in was the removal of the 15 -200s we got in addition if the pilot's didn't sign a contract in 3 months. We didn't. XJ got CRJ -200s. 'Course we now have them BACK, but who cares.

What I see is this: if 9E had not bought either Colgan or XJ, we wouldn't be in this situation. 9E would be seeing enough profitability from the -200 operations to balance out our whopping 16 -900s. XJ would still be cruising just fine (albeit without the Saabs). However, Colgan would have had an uphill climb on the Q400 financing. So, once again, we're left with the bag to clean up Phil and Co's mess. They aren't even here anymore and we're still picking up after them. Likely will be for years to come.

This just underlines that I don't think we'll be seeing any Delta jets parked. The -900s under XJ and the -200s under 9E are the "backbone" of the operation (and in this case backbone means "revenue generator"). If we DO see any parked, I'd guess they'd be out of the 9E -900s if anything, and I doubt that's going to happen with Delta pushing the DC-9 replacement plan of using -900s and E170/175s. Unless they can negotiate better terms with United, I don't know how much growth the Q is going to see, either. My guess is we SERIOUSLY underbid out competitors on the contract just to secure business (with hope of more coming, Phil's words, not mine BTW), and we're paying the price now.

There better be some pretty convincing financial data coming down for me to say "yes" to a 5% pay cut because our former masters couldn't add and subtract properly when putting out bids for new contracts.....
 
kellwolf said:
My guess is we SERIOUSLY underbid out competitors on the contract just to secure business (with hope of more coming, Phil's words, not mine BTW), and we're paying the price now.
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Pardon the levity, however this reminded me of the following:
 
kellwolf said:
This just underlines that I don't think we'll be seeing any Delta jets parked. The -900s under XJ and the -200s under 9E are the "backbone" of the operation (and in this case backbone means "revenue generator"). If we DO see any parked, I'd guess they'd be out of the 9E -900s if anything, and I doubt that's going to happen with Delta pushing the DC-9 replacement plan of using -900s and E170/175s. Unless they can negotiate better terms with United, I don't know how much growth the Q is going to see, either. My guess is we SERIOUSLY underbid out competitors on the contract just to secure business (with hope of more coming, Phil's words, not mine BTW), and we're paying the price now.
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Even though the 9E -900s are costing the company money, they are in a situation where they stand to be profitable sooner rather than later. It all depends on how fast the company can train XJ crews and get the fenced operation out of the way. That gets the 9E -900s into the old NW route system and when combined with the XJ -900s, they can make money.

What worries me is the Q400 flying. I'm afraid to find out what PT and DS ended up bidding for on that flying. Something tells me that we could have no expenses for the airframe and the pilots could fly for free and we would still lose money with the Q400.
 
how bad does the contract have to be if we lose money on the Saabs and Q's...?
 
I'm thinking that the mainline partners will renegotiate with us considering their only other option is for us to pursue bankruptcy where they will lose all sorts of control. It's in their best interest just as much as ours.

as far as my 5%, still a resounding N.O. These problems are way far beyond a lil take from my pay. They need to address these huge systematic issues and the epidemic waste.
 
sherpa said:
I'm thinking that the mainline partners will renegotiate with us considering their only other option is for us to pursue bankruptcy where they will lose all sorts of control. It's in their best interest just as much as ours.

as far as my 5%, still a resounding N.O. These problems are way far beyond a lil take from my pay. They need to address these huge systematic issues and the epidemic waste.
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I would say that they (mainline partners) could gain control by being able to restructure existing contracts with PNCL for lower costs and possible airframe numbers. Ch 11 may be just what these partners want to happen, a good way to wash their hands of the PNCL mess.
 
The Juice said:
I would say that they (mainline partners) could gain control by being able to restructure existing contracts with PNCL for lower costs and possible airframe numbers. Ch 11 may be just what these partners want to happen, a good way to wash their hands of the PNCL mess.
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This...

And one heck of an easy way to rid the DCI system of some 50 seat jets...(note: some).
 
I fail to see where there is incentive for United to renegotiate the rates, so bankrutcy is the only viable alternative for Pinnacle Corp. United forces the issue and gets the cheap lift into it's hubs and Pncl Corp. gets their costs in line by getting the union scale and work rules tossed out by a judge. Of course everyone wins in the end, EXCEPT the employees. Menke keeps his incentive-based bonuses, PT and the rest of his cronies keep their "consulting fee" intact and it's business as usual. Meanwhile the reasonably talented group of middle-managers keep building their resumes and jump through the revolving door when the phone rings. I am betting that at least half or more of the middle managers in flight ops, trng and flight standardswill be gone in the next 6 months and I don't blame them. They are going to have the leadership, managerial and organizational tests of their lives. We either have a massive turnaround or one of the most epic meltdowns in the airline industry.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Pinnacle saved us.

Got to say flagship for the first time today! What perfect timing!
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Pinnacle saved XJ about as much as XJ got Pinnacle a contract. I wish to god this merger had never happened. At least on the 9E side, things would be better for most guys. I still think we would have had a contract close to what we have now not much further down the road than we got one anyway if we hadn't bought XJ. The "Without XJ, you guys would still be parked by the NMB" sounds good when people are running for union positions, though. Take away the merger, and my life personally is no different. I'd still be a JFK CA on the -200, I'd still be in the same position seniority wise (scratch that, I'd be HIGHER in seniority) and I'd still be living in MCO.


I like how Menke's letter said that part of the problem was no fences. What he MEANT to say was "No real fences on the -200 or for FOs."
 
kellwolf said:
Pinnacle saved XJ about as much as XJ got Pinnacle a contract. I wish to god this merger had never happened. At least on the 9E side, things would be better for most guys. I still think we would have had a contract close to what we have now not much further down the road than we got one anyway if we hadn't bought XJ. The "Without XJ, you guys would still be parked by the NMB" sounds good when people are running for union positions, though. Take away the merger, and my life personally is no different. I'd still be a JFK CA on the -200, I'd still be in the same position seniority wise (scratch that, I'd be HIGHER in seniority) and I'd still be living in MCO.


I like how Menke's letter said that part of the problem was no fences. What he MEANT to say was "No real fences on the -200 or for FOs."
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The merger has been the biggest headache so far, but to be honest... I would rather be merging with just Mesaba than Colgan (no offense to our Colgan brethren). With the reduction in the Saab fleet, 9E would have pilots to properly staff the -200 flying and at least XJ would have brought a profitable organization ot the mix.

All I am seeing right now are a bunch of very poor business decision by Phil Trenary and Co. Guess he was forced out so now he is going to consult us right in to Chapter 11.
 
kellwolf said:
Pinnacle saved XJ about as much as XJ got Pinnacle a contract. I wish to god this merger had never happened. At least on the 9E side, things would be better for most guys. I still think we would have had a contract close to what we have now not much further down the road than we got one anyway if we hadn't bought XJ. The "Without XJ, you guys would still be parked by the NMB" sounds good when people are running for union positions, though. Take away the merger, and my life personally is no different. I'd still be a JFK CA on the -200, I'd still be in the same position seniority wise (scratch that, I'd be HIGHER in seniority) and I'd still be living in MCO.


I like how Menke's letter said that part of the problem was no fences. What he MEANT to say was "No real fences on the -200 or for FOs."
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If I could turn back time... If I could find a way... I'd take back those mergers that hurt you... and we'd say... we could reach the stars... pull one down for you... something something something... something.

ctab5060X said:
But how many radio calls did you miss because you are still tuning out 'Flagship'? :)
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Phht.
"Mesaba-Pinnacle-Flagship three... umhmm... Can we taxi?"

ctab5060X said:
The merger has been the biggest headache so far, but to be honest... I would rather be merging with just Mesaba than Colgan (no offense to our Colgan brethren). With the reduction in the Saab fleet, 9E would have pilots to properly staff the -200 flying and at least XJ would have brought a profitable organization ot the mix.

All I am seeing right now are a bunch of very poor business decision by Phil Trenary and Co. Guess he was forced out so now he is going to consult us right in to Chapter 11.
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Only one thing left to do for Trenary. Seriously, think about it. Born on third base and thinks he hit a triple, running companies into the ground, cares more about politics than making sure the company he runs is financially sound- it's time for a Presidential run baby. I think I saw him non-revving to SC today!
 
jynxyjoe said:
Only one thing left to do for Trenary. Seriously, think about it. Born on third base and thinks he hit a triple, running companies into the ground, cares more about politics than making sure the company he runs is financially sound- it's time for a Presidential run baby. I think I saw him non-revving to SC today!
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Would not be surprised one bit if PT got into politics.

Mayor of Memphis would not be out of his reach...
 
jynxyjoe said:
If I could turn back time... If I could find a way... I'd take back those mergers that hurt you... and we'd say... we could reach the stars... pull one down for you... something something something... something.


Phht.
"Mesaba-Pinnacle-Flagship three... umhmm... Can we taxi?"


Only one thing left to do for Trenary. Seriously, think about it. Born on third base and thinks he hit a triple, running companies into the ground, cares more about politics than making sure the company he runs is financially sound- it's time for a Presidential run baby. I think I saw him non-revving to SC today!
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Did you tell him to go take a long walk off a tall cliff?
 
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