Effect of Phil Trenery Still Being Felt

ATN_Pilot said:
The people doing the Economic & Financial Analysis (E&FA) work here are topnotch. I know them, and they can definitely be counted on to do a thorough analysis and provide factual data to the union leadership. You also have a topnotch MEC Chairman whose integrity really can't be questioned. You also have Seggy, and I don't think anyone around here would question his integrity, either. In the end, you should listen to all of these people (among others) and reach a decision based on logic, not emotion. As Seggy pointed out, every situation is different, so your case won't be the same as Delta's or anyone else's. They are all unique. Learn from history, but also realize that every situation is different.

Good luck. This industry really sucks sometimes.
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This is very well put. Way too much speculation of what will be presented and what details are involved. Road shows will start soon and we can use that opportunity to listen and hear the information presented, from there each pilot can make their decision on what was presented, not speculated at an earlier time.

From tonight's Comm...

"At the road shows, we will be able to provide the detailed information necessary for you to make an informed decision."
 
undsioux1 said:
This is the biggest thing that gets me. According to the email sent out last night, the company is NOT proposing any sort of snap-backs in the event this grand plan DOES work and the company financially recovers. I think that would significantly help in getting the pilots to agree to cuts.
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No snap backs, then you can pretty much count on a "no" vote. Why would the pilot group agree to a cut only to had to fight in 4 years to get back what we already had and maybe get it 3-4 MORE years later? only to have to fight in 4 years to get back what we already have
 
Don't really care what's presented. Asking someone who only cleared $31k last year that you trust to fly your million dollars worth of metal and lives around to take a pay cut is pretty damned low.

Full pay to the last day.
 
v1valarob said:
Don't really care what's presented. Asking someone who only cleared $31k last year that you trust to fly your million dollars worth of metal and lives around to take a pay cut is pretty damned low.
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Must be nice to be that rich...
 
Well if roadshows can start as early as Monday, I'm guessing that the company and ALPA will have to come to an agreement either today or tomorrow. Hopefully the information gets passed along to us relatively soon.
 
Speaking of moronic morons who are morons, Pinnacle has asked the ramp to stay on until Tuesday because they didn't realize until today (the day of the furlough) it's not until Tuesday that they actually have less flights to handle.

13 VP's and no one caught that?
 
v1valarob said:
Don't really care what's presented. Asking someone who only cleared $31k last year that you trust to fly your million dollars worth of metal and lives around to take a pay cut is pretty damned low.

Full pay to the last day.
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At this point in time, without knowing any of the information, I don't know how anyone can say they are going to vote yes or no?

I think we all need to have some patience, trust the guys we elected, and get educated when the info is released.

After all that, then decide
 
CEWLGUY said:
At this point in time, without knowing any of the information, I don't know how anyone can say they are going to vote yes or no?

I think we all need to have some patience, trust the guys we elected, and get educated when the info is released.

After all that, then decide
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I think I'll heed the advice of my pilot elders who have "been there and done that."
 
The part that bothers me is that we don't know any information now, then it will be released to us in a rushed flow while we are being told to make up our minds. That's a lot of information in a very short period of time. That usually causes misunderstanding and misdirection....someone correct me if I am wrong.
 
I think when the MEC is done negotiating with the company we will find out what is really going on. Something big is going on, or the company wouldn't be going through all the trouble to negotiate with creditors, code shares, labor etc. All BK's have common denominators but they also occur for different reasons. As much as I want to "toe the line" I'm going to remain rational and hear our MEC before I decide. There is something big that we just don't see yet. I don't know what it is, but the company is scrambling to fix it.
 
GlenA said:
The part that bothers me is that we don't know any information now, then it will be released to us in a rushed flow while we are being told to make up our minds. That's a lot of information in a very short period of time. That usually causes misunderstanding and misdirection....someone correct me if I am wrong.
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Or it pretty much is and feels like this?

 
jynxyjoe said:
Speaking of moronic morons who are morons, Pinnacle has asked the ramp to stay on until Tuesday because they didn't realize until today (the day of the furlough) it's not until Tuesday that they actually have less flights to handle.

13 VP's and no one caught that?
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This happened in MEM a couple of years ago. They basically told a good chunk of the ramp they would be jobless in 3-4 weeks. They were then surprised when the same rampers just stopped coming to work. A lot, ironically, got jobs on the ramp with mainline NWA. Others just said "Screw it" and left early. I think a rare few stuck around until they were actually given their walking papers. For as little as they make, I'd have walked early, too.
 
I love coming on here to read this thread while I sit reserve... makes my dislike for the job grow exponentially.

From any of you guys that have been there done that how does the voting work? Does every pilot vote? Or are the ones on probation left out of the voting?
 
I think it depends on the guidelines. I know for contract voting, the probation pilots are left out. I don't know the exact wording of the guidelines for this vote, though. Generally, it's log on to a website and click "yes" or "no" to vote. If you're old school or a technophobe, you can still use the phone. :)
 
Only members in good standing can vote: not pilots in bad standing, not executive members, and no probies.

Basically, if you pay dues, and pay them on time, you can vote.
 
kellwolf said:
I think it depends on the guidelines. I know for contract voting, the probation pilots are left out. I don't know the exact wording of the guidelines for this vote, though. Generally, it's log on to a website and click "no" to vote. If you're old school or a technophobe, you can still use the phone. :)
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Fixed it for you.
 
Financial analysis blah blah blah...every situation is different yadda yadda yadda. I have no interest in financing any more company shenanigans. I've already done that enough in 6+ years. Quite frankly, we've all put up with too much crap to give back any of the hard earned gains we got with our contract. Even with those gains we still make slave labor wages with very few exceptions. Rich get richer and we're still left holding the empty leaking soupbowl asking for more cold porridge.

Still, I'm quite interested to hear what's to be said in the road shows. Gonna have to be one HELL of a TA to get a yes vote from me and like mentioned by other folks, no snapbacks=no. Yes is not impossible, but highly unlikely.
 
I highly advise anyone with any reservations or concerns to pick up the phone (or keyboard) and contact your elected reps. They might be under a NDA, but you can at least get first hand information and pick their brain about why (in broad terms) certain decisions are being made.

For what it is worth, I have had a very informative and enlightening discussion with my rep. Nearly all my concerns were addressed or if they were not, I was at least conforted by the fact that the MEC does share some of the same concerns.


It wouldn't surprise me if the company really wants to release more information, but legally can't right now.
 
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