EFAS / Flight Watch

J

Jones14

Well-Known Member
I wanted to talk a little bit about enroute weather. Like I've said before, I'm in my Commercial time building stage and each cross-country I go on I have loads of time to sit and think about how much I don't know. If I have these questions, them I'm sure others do as well. The other thread I created on Flight Following helped me out a lot. The information is easily accessible, but it's also good to get another's take on things.

Last week I was on a VFR run to Jefferson City, MO. I checked the weather before I left, and the forecast for the area was showing some showers moving in from the SW. According to the TAF, I was going to beat the weather by several hours. I'm finding out more and more that forecasts are definitely not set in stone, and things can change at any time. The leg to KJEF was uneventful, but I could see darker clouds looming to the SW, just as the TAF had mentioned.

My plan was to smash-n-go at KJEF and loop south of the St. Louis class B navigating on a few VOR's back to Carbondale, IL for some lunch. This was moving me toward the weather, which I still should have been hours ahead of. Not so much the case, about half way through the second leg the ceilings were dropping quick. I was cruising at 5,500 taking advantage of the winds, and ended up having to descend below 3,000 to maintain VFR. I even saw some precipitation falling at some points. I decided to just pick up a radial, and high tail it to the home base... I'm not getting stuck 2 hours from home just because I'm hungry.

When I got back I was curious to see what was going on along my route, and all of the METARS/TAFs were indicating overcast 7,000-10,000. FA indicates VFR for the area and the rain didn't show up until several hours later that afternoon. It must have just been a small rare area of low clouds. It left me thinking, "Wow, did I just puss out hard." And, I wanted that damn pizza!

So, now I want to discuss how I could have used my options to get that pizza in my belly. I needed some enroute weather, but was unsure of who or how to call up for it. I doubt the guys working at the Flight Service Stations are considered "controllers," but it was either here or the training sections? So, from my brief Google searches I have refreshed myself somewhat on how it works. Correct me if I'm wrong and by all means throw in some suggestions or whatever you want.

"EFAS," or Enroute Flight Advisory Service, is a nationwide common frequency on 122.0. Also referred to "Flight Watch." From what I understand these guys stay quite busy, so you should have specific questions when calling them. Details to include on call up: tail number, closest VOR, request. Maybe this type of transaction...

"Flight Watch, Cessna 123AB, Farmington VOR, with request."

"Cessna 123AB, say request."

"123AB, any reports of cloud tops near Farmington VOR?" ...and subsequent answer.


Now, another source for enroute weather available is by calling an FSS using the information found on you sectional charts (VOR block), or AFD. In the picture below you notice that on the Centralia VOR there is the frequency 122.1R. The "R" indicates that THEY receive on that frequency, and you will be listening for a response over the VOR frequency of 115.0. The Mt. Vernon VOR, while only 17 miles away, has it's own set of frequencies (122.05R, 113.8) The words below saying [ST LOUIS] indicate that you will be calling the St. Louis FSS, or "St. Louis Radio." Here I understand you can pick up more information, or ask more questions because you are isolated to those frequencies and not clogging up 122.0.

flightwatch.jpg


For iPad users like myself, you can find the information a few different ways other than looking at the VFR sectional. In the "Frequencies" tab of each airport.

2-1.png



Under "Communications" in the A/FD, see RCO frequencies.
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So, in the end I suppose some clarification would be nice.

What is the difference between using 122.0 and using the VOR's for communication?
Am I talking to the same people, just making it "personal" on a VOR frequency?
What are the typical requests that people are calling up for?
Does this practice offer any other services to pilots?

I'm looking forward to giving this a shot next time I'm out there. Maybe it's just me, but this was never a big topic in any of my training so far. It's a pretty grey area, and if anyone else feels the same way then maybe this thread could help us gain a new tool while enroute.
 
Ive used Flight Watch a good number of times. Very useful tool out there for WX info. Flight Watch is specifically for WX info.

Talking through the VOR is simply a method of communicating to the FSS. People use it when VFR to open/amend/close flight plans, etc.

Am surprised it's not emphasized in training or that people don't seem to know about it.
 
Thanks for this post.

Im one of the few pilots who heavily rely on flight watch frequently. I fly a non radar equipped 210 at relatively low altitudes. Most of my flights are less than two hours but things can change fast.

In the summer if I hear ATC mention a CWA or new Sigmet I'll first tune up HIWAS To get the details. If I see it's something that directly affects me I'll then call Flight Watch and get some insight and advice.

Often times I'll simply monitor 122.0 and see what other pilots are getting info on and that will be of some help.

Since I fly the same route daily, I've gotten to know the voices on the Flight Watch frequency. Those guys and gals are always eager to help me out and grateful for the PIREPS I give them. Don't ever think your bothering them.


Sent from my iPhone
 
MikeD said:
Am surprised it's not emphasized in training or that people don't seem to know about it.
Click to expand...

It could just be me, I remember going over it during my PPL phase... but never used it in the airplane. That was over a year ago.
 
Makes sense. It probably was covered, maybe not in-depth. But with everything else you needed to learn, it likely just slipped from the mind. It is very useful to use though, and there if you need it.
 
Not to denigrate Flight Watch, but it may be easier to find the frequency for the approach or center that serves the airspace in which you're flying and call them. I would wager that many more PIREPs are given to controllers, plus we have NEXRAD and weather RADAR, which, while not great, may help some.
 
Would Flight Watch be able to give you current METAR/TAFs from your destination when you're still a couple hundred miles out? I haven't done too many longer cross countries where I've really needed it but I was wondering on the last one.
 
JordanD said:
Would Flight Watch be able to give you current METAR/TAFs from your destination when you're still a couple hundred miles out? I haven't done too many longer cross countries where I've really needed it but I was wondering on the last one.
Click to expand...

I've gotten all sorts of WX info from them, to include the above.
 
For your FSS example when transmitting on the VHF comm radio and receiving through a VOR, make sure to specify WHICH VOR you expect them to respond through in your initial call. I've heard this is because the VORs often share input frequencies, and unless the FSS specialist is looking at the radio panel when you call they'll have no idea whether you called in through an RCO or a remote receiver at a VOR, and won't know which VOR to reply to you on. (And they usually cover a WIDE area!)
 
Great thread.

I have never used Flight Watch, because I thought I saw that coverage may not be available below 5,000 AGL. Almost all of my flying is below this altitude.

In the AIM, http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/aim0701.html#aim0701.html.8, part 7-1-5 seems to confirm this. But it shows a map that only shades a few places where coverage may not available below 5,000 AGL,. Have any of you found difficulties receiving or talking to EFAS at lower altitudes?
 
erice said:
Great thread.

I have never used Flight Watch, because I thought I saw that coverage may not be available below 5,000 AGL. Almost all of my flying is below this altitude.

In the AIM, http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/aim0701.html#aim0701.html.8, part 7-1-5 seems to confirm this. But it shows a map that only shades a few places where coverage may not available below 5,000 AGL,. Have any of you found difficulties receiving or talking to EFAS at lower altitudes?
Click to expand...

I personally haven't ever had any difficulties, but that's been mostly in the SW USA; so the mileage may vary.
 
According to an AOPA article, the only areas that the 5,000 and above suggestion applies is in mountainous areas. Which seems kind of obvious. I'm not going to be too curious of rain at my destination when I'm flying through a mountain. But, seriously I do remember trying to call up Flight Watch one time with my instructor. I'm sure we were below 5,000 and couldn't get a reply. So, I think there is some truth to that. Can't look at the coverage map because I'm on my phone, but we called in from somewhere in Southern IL.
 
I didn't want to make a new topic just for this one easy question. It has to do with Airmets for icing. The way I've been viewing them may be incorrect. As seen in the picture, for downstate Illinois I read icing from 3,000 to 6,000 moving North ( out of 170 degreees). Then for South Dakota there is icing from the surface to 6,000 @ 130 degrees. Which is backed up the the ceiling and vis overlay. Maybe the number above isn't a directional thing? Possibly cloud tops? But in that case, there would be a possibility of icing until breaking out. When the map is put in motion, the system is moving to the Northeast. Can someone clarify?

airmet.jpg

airmet2.jpg
 
The numbers are altitudes, not directions. Lower and upper altitudes of potential icing areas. Two numbers on the bottom are probably noting that the lowest altitude for possible icing varies throughout the area (maybe because of varying cloud bases, or freezing level?).
 
I've used Flight Watch and FSS depending on the situation and location. Approach might be helpful for local information but that would also be dependent on the facility and their work load. I also found it helpful to have a map that shows VORs so I have an idea of what they are talking about especially if I am in a new area.
 
I always make it a point to make sure my students feel comfortable talking to "Flight Watch", unfortunately there a a few (most) 'specialists' who absolutely ream these poor students so badly that I'm sure they'll never use it again.

Exchange a few days ago:

"Specialist"- "November 12345 say aircraft type"

Student- "Skyhawk 12345 is a Cessna 172.................."

"Specialist"-"ABSOLUTELY repetitive, you think I don't know what a Skyhawk is? STAND-BY!"
 
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