Eclipse is dead

Cessna414JJB said:
Whats a few bucks between buddies?
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The plan all along was to take the company public. At that point, all the original investors would get their money back and the stockholders would be the big owners.

Before the inflated oil prices, Ch. 11, and even before the first production model was delivered, though, there was speculation that there would be an inflated IPO that would quickly adjust to reality (hence the vocal media campaign and relatively high sensitivity to criticism).

But especially after Q4 2008, any talk of a public offering dried up.
 
What is the big safety flaw?
I know nothing about the jet (except it looks to small!) but I have heard many times it had flawed/ cheated certification. But what is deadly about it?

Sucks to be one who ones one. Maybe they can turn it into a neat windsock or something.
 
Itchy said:
What is the big safety flaw?
I know nothing about the jet (except it looks to small!) but I have heard many times it had flawed/ cheated certification. But what is deadly about it?

Sucks to be one who ones one. Maybe they can turn it into a neat windsock or something.
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Beyond the power quadrent/ fadec fail killing ALL power? I always love it when i go around... and the power lever angle sensor craps... causing me to got to idle power... or lock at max power ( have fun landing that)
 
Itchy said:
What is the big safety flaw?
I know nothing about the jet (except it looks to small!) but I have heard many times it had flawed/ cheated certification. But what is deadly about it?
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Well, understand safety flaws aren't always the V tails coming off the plane or the avionics + FMS taking a dump... like an Airbus 330 that will remain nameless. Oops.

Some of the notable (public) flaws have been:
-The de-icing and anti icing system slipping in and out of certification x3
-Three different avionics packages during the last 2 years because none could pass
-The spray paint, no i'm not kidding, issue on finished products and they couldn't figure out why the radio's wouldn't work
-The metal fuel caps on the composite wings... BOOM. Then the fuel cap issue again. Then the fuel cap issue again. Then the fuel cap issue again. wait how many times was that... 1, 2, 3, 4... Then the fuel cap issue again. There 5.
-FSDO swapping
-Trying to individually certify each plane that came off the assembly line because Eclipse didn't know what an assembly cert. was... or at least pretended to.
-Group of all test pilots and many test and design engineers blowing the whistle on Eclipse, causing a complete certification review, which I have yet to hear the conclusion of.
-IFR cert failing miserably and the company coming out the very next week with the "Hey at least we can get it VFR typed, that means it's at least as good as an RV-6".

Many engineers were so in shock at some of the original designs of this thing (electrically and structurally) that a bias has persisted in the community of engineers against Eclipse. Like trying to tell Eclipse that, "I understand it was promised to you that composite's bond well, but they mean structural bonding NOT electrical bonding..... See we talked about this for years now and I don't think you understand... No we can't just make it happen.... no it doesn't matter that bill gates and Cheney are your friends.... It still won't pass... That's why it didn't pass... I have to go now, I'm sorry." (previous conversation was a bit embellished)

Now business wise and PR wise and, unfortunately, pilot magazine wise, you'd have thought this thing was a huge success. This is one time, when non-engineers (businesspeople and pilots and writers) are gonna be looking at this from the outside in.

I hear it flies fine, day VFR.

EDIT:

sorry should have put the throttle quadrant and fadec thing in there too. There is a big list.
 
Hmmm. And now no one will be left to sue.

Is it all possible that anyone will pick up the pieces and try to put it together again . (Unlikely, I know - but you sound close enough to know)

So the first time some owner needs a left hand snufle valve, the jet is permanently grounded? Will there be *any* parts support?
 
Itchy said:
Hmmm. And now no one will be left to sue.

Is it all possible that anyone will pick up the pieces and try to put it together again . (Unlikely, I know - but you sound close enough to know)

So the first time some owner needs a left hand snufle valve, the jet is permanently grounded? Will there be *any* parts support?
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In this country we can ALWAYS manufacture parts if you want to spend the money.

The problem with eclipse is, you spend so much money for a product that costs more than a real jet would cost. At first it was "cheap" but then production and development costs had to be added into the equation for selling and unless the company completely liquidates there will be no place to start from. Could the 500 have succeeded? Sure if it was started 4 years ago rather than 14 and they had some people at the helm didn't who think that aircraft certification was just like computer OS building.

There will be people left to sue also. Too many conservative and liberal darlings in the biz world have left their fingerprints all over this thing. I've got the popcorn saved up for the congressional hearings that will follow.
 
Itchy said:
Hmmm. And now no one will be left to sue.

Is it all possible that anyone will pick up the pieces and try to put it together again . (Unlikely, I know - but you sound close enough to know)

So the first time some owner needs a left hand snufle valve, the jet is permanently grounded? Will there be *any* parts support?
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uh....don't you mean fetzer valve?

:D
 
Fifteen to twenty million dollars should be able to buy the assets I have heard. Now, the Eclipse owners group offered around $50 million at an earlier time I believe, but ETRIC got the company. I am thinking that those people (the owner group) would probably scrape together $20 million or so simply to have some form of parts supply. Not sure and complete speculation.

What are the engines worth on the open market? What else uses them? If they are a hundred or so apiece, then that would at least recover a portion of the cost. The early Eclipses sold for less money I believe (around a million - million three?) so you could potentially recover some there. Now, if there were another VLJ that used those engines - perhaps they could offer to take your Eclipse in trade (at a much diminished value) and you could have that companies product. Another alternative would be for the DoD to buy up all the Eclipses and convert them into drones for the fighter guys to shoot - how much do drones cost? I would imagine that an Eclipse owner would gladly take five hundred k to get rid of the plane AND have the pleasure of watching it take a sidewinder and blow up.
 
WacoFan said:
Fifteen to twenty million dollars should be able to buy the assets I have heard. Now, the Eclipse owners group offered around $50 million at an earlier time I believe, but ETRIC got the company. I am thinking that those people (the owner group) would probably scrape together $20 million or so simply to have some form of parts supply. Not sure and complete speculation.

What are the engines worth on the open market? What else uses them? If they are a hundred or so apiece, then that would at least recover a portion of the cost. The early Eclipses sold for less money I believe (around a million - million three?) so you could potentially recover some there. Now, if there were another VLJ that used those engines - perhaps they could offer to take your Eclipse in trade (at a much diminished value) and you could have that companies product. Another alternative would be for the DoD to buy up all the Eclipses and convert them into drones for the fighter guys to shoot - how much do drones cost? I would imagine that an Eclipse owner would gladly take five hundred k to get rid of the plane AND have the pleasure of watching it take a sidewinder and blow up.
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Until the price of oil fell through the floor there was a large Russian investment consortium that was gonna buy the whole thing outright. I imagine they'd like to get their hands on the stir-friction welding though personally.
 
Clearblue said:
What are you talking about? The Tesla roadster is in production and on the streets. Has been since last year.
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I think he meant in wide distribution. Right now, the ticket price on the thing is $109K stock. Hardly accessible to the average consumer. That price would come down a LOT if they weren't essentially custom making the things. $5000 gets you a reservation, but they won't start building it until you give them $55K.
 
Original creator ousted, management taken over, jobs lost... Was an interesting article in forbes i think...

It was an interesting Idea that could have become something cool... now it will be nothing more than a tax credit and show piece for those who have...

not a fun vehicle to take to a track, etc.
 
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