Eaglevoy new TA

It seems to me like this is being sent out so AMR managment can say, "Look, we tried! Look at how unreasonable these pilots are!!!"
 
They'll hold the line, it won't pass. I can't imagine this does anything to attract pilots, even Endeavor looks like a better place to work.
 
I think it's pretty obvious management wants those planes at Envoy more than anything. Just shows yet again what an enormous dump ALPA takes on regional F/Os.
 
wheelsup said:
I think it's pretty obvious management wants those planes at Envoy more than anything. Just shows yet again what an enormous dump ALPA takes on regional F/Os.
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This doesn't fall on ALPA, it is squarely at the feet of the reps who killed much better deals. We could have had a 170 plane guaranteed fleet plan and increased flow for the last few months. Things that would've made a genuine difference in the future of eagle.
 
ian said:
so if this passes, does that mean that all the "PSA IS THE SCUM OF THE INDUSTRY" "PSA ISNT WELCOME ON ANY JUMPSEAT" "NO CONCESSIONS IN THE TIMES OF RECORD PROFITS" will stop?
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No the idiots here are claiming we are only forced into this agreement because of them.
 
ian said:
so if this passes, does that mean that all the "PSA IS THE SCUM OF THE INDUSTRY" "PSA ISNT WELCOME ON ANY JUMPSEAT" "NO CONCESSIONS IN THE TIMES OF RECORD PROFITS" will stop?
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No, which is BS.

XJT has been working under a concessary contract since 2008, but it's a-ok because it's XJT. Skywest has almost no work rules and pays poorly overall, but it's ok because "Skywest is a great regional."

PSA pilots credit 300 hours per month, but they're pieces of crap because they're PSA.
 
Gonzo said:
This doesn't fall on ALPA, it is squarely at the feet of the reps who killed much better deals. We could have had a 170 plane guaranteed fleet plan and increased flow for the last few months. Things that would've made a genuine difference in the future of eagle.
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Capping an already ridiculously low F/O payscale at now an even lower amount is what I'm referring to.
 
Some bullet points:

Pros
  • $12,500 signing bonus (all for Captains, FOs get $7,500, then $5,000 for upgrading/retiring age 65/JAN/1/2017)
  • New 12/4 payscales somewhat tied to flow through
    • FOs on property at DOS may continue to level 8 unless they turn down upgrade in base
    • CAs may continue past 12 if AA flows less than 220 in a year
  • Per diem not frozen - increases up to $2.00 by 2024
  • PBS pushed back until 41st 175
  • Flow improvements
    • 824 and protected pilots increases to lesser of 50%/30 slots a month after first 175
    • Pilots hired after 2011 lesser of 35%/15 slots a month
    • Pilots hired after DOS lesser 25%/5 slots a month (plus 1 slot for every 125 pilots on seniority list above 480)
  • 40 175s starting Nov 2015 and all 90 options if purchased
Cons
  • Current pay tables frozen till 2017 with 1% increases thereafter
  • 12/4 caps (see above)
  • Reduction in vacation accrual
  • Increase in health insurance employee contribution from 30% to 35% over five year span
  • 10 year duration
  • No fleet guarantee
  • Flow improvements not as good as March 2014 TA
Like @Gonzo was saying, the real bummer of this TA is that it isn't as good as the one voted down in March. I still hope that it passes, because the alternative for me is making a lateral move to another regional within the next two years.

Despite its low points, if it can attract new hires and create growth, this TA would be a boon for current pilots. The flow through agreement, though worse than what was offered before, is still much better than what PSA got and the failed EtD.
 
wheelsup said:
Capping an already ridiculously low F/O payscale at now an even lower amount is what I'm referring to.
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And you're still wrong. ALPA is not to blame for Envoy's situation. The economic realities of the industry are. ALPA tried desperately to give the Envoy pilots a better deal, but the hardline morons turned it down. Now those same hardline morons voted for it on the MEC and are out selling it, because they finally figured out that their ALPA advisers knew what they were talking about and the jobs of everyone at Envoy were about to disappear.

Your insistence on blaming ALPA is pathetic.
 
SpiceWeasel said:
You're one of those huh? *sigh*

Can't pay you guys money they don't have.
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If they don't have money to pay their pilots fair wages then they should not be an airline. Don't make silly statements.

And I'm not sure what you mean by one of "those". I don't deny psa guys my jumpseat or verbally abuse them. I just am not going to be ok that they continued this stupid "I'll do anything for a quick upgrade and new jeeeeetttsss"
 
ian said:
So it's their fault if envoy votes in a worse contract?
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Somewhat. PSA started this foolishness of this type of contract and now everyone is jumping on board. If they would have told them to pound sand, who knows where we might be now...probably not here.
 
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