SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
The only reason I don't want this to go out of style is so I won't have to enter in more GPS coordinates in 411, am I right or am I right??
Duty Time 135
- Thread starter brian434
- Start date
brian434
Well-Known Member
When I worked for Lifeteam I was shown a letter from the FAA that was situational in nature. It answered the questions about what is allowed and not allowed as far as exceeding the 14 hour duty day. Think I can find an electronic copy of that now? Heck no.
EMS is slightly different than most charters. Passengers may turn red on other charters but they don't usually turn blue.
I'm on a mission to get people to quit using the term "14 hour duty day" when referring to 135 ops. There is no such thing.
The regs say (paraphrased) that you have to be done doing 135 flying by the end of 14 hours of continuous duty (and the actual wording talks about "rest", not "duty"). Since "duty" can include many things besides flying (basically any work or travel that is done for the company), it is perfectly legal to have a duty day that is over 14 hours. I could do a trip that has 135 flying during the first 10 hours, then get put on an airliner and travel for 6 hours, then do 2 hours of paperwork in the office - that's a perfectly legal 18 hour duty day right there.
Yeah, yeah, I understand what most people MEAN when they say "14 hour duty day", but words mean things.
Bottom line is that you cannot accept (and the company cannot assign) a FLIGHT (135 flight) unless, at the completion of the flight, the pilot can look back and find 10 hours of continuous rest within the past 24 hours. This is not the same thing as being limited to 14 hours of duty.
[/rant or PSA, depending upon the receiver]
The regs say (paraphrased) that you have to be done doing 135 flying by the end of 14 hours of continuous duty (and the actual wording talks about "rest", not "duty"). Since "duty" can include many things besides flying (basically any work or travel that is done for the company), it is perfectly legal to have a duty day that is over 14 hours. I could do a trip that has 135 flying during the first 10 hours, then get put on an airliner and travel for 6 hours, then do 2 hours of paperwork in the office - that's a perfectly legal 18 hour duty day right there.
Yeah, yeah, I understand what most people MEAN when they say "14 hour duty day", but words mean things.
Bottom line is that you cannot accept (and the company cannot assign) a FLIGHT (135 flight) unless, at the completion of the flight, the pilot can look back and find 10 hours of continuous rest within the past 24 hours. This is not the same thing as being limited to 14 hours of duty.
[/rant or PSA, depending upon the receiver]
Dugie8
Well-Known Member
135.267(c)
...talks about exceeding the flight time limits, and says that you can do so only within the limits of a"14 hour duty day", so yes, I guess there is such a thing. Still not the same as what most people are referring to. I stand partially corrected.
I wasn't giving an interpretation of duty, just debunking the idea of a 14 hour duty day limitation.
z987k
Well-Known Member
That may be, but it does no one any good to kill 3+ people trying to save 1. Let alone the danger to the public. Not to mention that CAMTS is way more strict than 135. At least where I work, if you're pushing a 135 rule, you're likely well into violating CAMTS policy, and that's not allowed.When I worked for Lifeteam I was shown a letter from the FAA that was situational in nature. It answered the questions about what is allowed and not allowed as far as exceeding the 14 hour duty day. Think I can find an electronic copy of that now? Heck no.
EMS is slightly different than most charters. Passengers may turn red on other charters but they don't usually turn blue.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
*shrug*. We have it from on high that we're allowed to exceed 14, provided we realistically planned 14. And since the way I heard it, we have uhm..."family connections" at CAMTS. Well. I hope there's not a divorce involved in all of this.
z987k
Well-Known Member
Where I was, there isn't a doctor in 5 states that would send a patient to a non camts provider. I don't think the nurses would get on either.
Now however... it's the damn wild west.
z987k
Well-Known Member
OR, WA, ID, CA, MT
z987k
Well-Known Member
Yep. Only ~300ktas.
Dugie8
Well-Known Member
135.267 only talks about exceeding flight time limits. Nothing about being able to exceed duty limits.
135.263(d) only speaks to flight time as well not exceeding duty limits.
135.273 talks about duty BUT that reg only applies to flight attendants, see 135.261(e)
I'm on my phone, so having a hard time following the conversation flow.
My point is that, in general terms, there is no duty time limit in 135 flying. There is a rest requirement, but no limit to how long someone can perform work related duties. Flight assignments can not be part of the duty without having 10 hours rest within the past 24, but that limitation does not limit duty in the broader sense.
Am I missing the point that you are trying to make?
Very good.