DPE's and emergencies

A

azaviator08

New Member
What would happen if an emergency arose while a DPE was conducting a flight test. Would they take over? Would they be the one who is responsible since they are the highest rated pilot in the airplane?

Anyone ever hear of this happening?
 
The DPE will likely brief you about it.

Every DPE I've met you are still the PIC, he's available to help as you request it.
 
Every DPE i have had to take a test with made it very clear that no matter what happens I was the PIC the entire time and he was not liable in case of emergency
 
Jbroz04 said:
Every DPE i have had to take a test with made it very clear that no matter what happens I was the PIC the entire time and he was not liable in case of emergency
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Correct me if I am wrong, but a DPE cannot be PIC for this flight. I believe I read some where that they don't even need a medical. Can anyone verify?
 
I only know of one case in which an engine failure occurred during a checkride, and the examiner took the controls, then safely put the plane in to a field.

Briefing that the applicant is PIC in case of emergency is mostly a legal thing to reduce liability. I don't know how many examiners would actually sit there like a bump on a log if a true emergency developed.
 
Each checkride I've taken I was briefed that in the event of an emergency the checkride was not over.


When I took my 141 rides with the FAA the inspector told me at least half a dozen times that I was PIC and that he didn't want to touch anything.
 
shdw said:
I believe I read some where that they don't even need a medical. Can anyone verify?
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The way I understand it from a friend of mine who is a DPE...

That used to be true, but now they are required to have at least a 3rd class medical.

Someone correct me if I am wrong here.
 
a few examiners i have flown with will not take the controls unless they feel threatened with the outcome.

on my CFI checkride we lost power and I had to preform a poweroff landing. Since I had to make a turn for the landing, it counted as my power off 180....but then when the cowling was taken off by mx at the airport i landed at i got a whole nother oral on the inner workings of the front of the plane.

that sucked. turns out the spark plug ceramics cracked and was partially sucked into the cylinder.
 
shdw said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but a DPE cannot be PIC for this flight. I believe I read some where that they don't even need a medical. Can anyone verify?
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A DPE is not PIC for a checkride unless he chooses to assume the responsibility. FAR 61.47. It's an regulatory effort by the FAA to attempt to shield examiners from liability.

FAA Order 8900.2, the Designee Handbook, requires that a DPE be qualified to act as PIC (even though she isn't PIC). Part of that is maintaining at least a 3rd class medical if a medical would be required to act as PIC (so, for example, a glider DPE doesn't need a medical)
What would happen if an emergency arose while a DPE was conducting a flight test.
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Chances are pretty good you'd find out that either (a) the non-PIC status of the DPE is a fiction or (b) the real PIC (the student pilot) would make the command decision to assign the handling of the emergency to the DPE or (c) the Examiner was ultimate cool, let the student handle the emergency, and the student passed the checkride with flying colors.
 
*TRUE STORY*

Back in the day, I think it was the 1970s, a friend of my dad's was going for his PPL. Back then, they actually killed the engine (shut off the mags) and made the applicant restart the engine. When this friend went to recover/restart, nothing happened. Long story short, he landed in a field and passed his checkride :nana2:
 
c172captain said:
*TRUE STORY*

Back in the day, I think it was the 1970s, a friend of my dad's was going for his PPL. Back then, they actually killed the engine (shut off the mags) and made the applicant restart the engine. When this friend went to recover/restart, nothing happened. Long story short, he landed in a field and passed his checkride :nana2:
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Back in the day ruled. !
 
I would have though the DPE would require a medical, as they would be the 'safety pilot' whenever you are under the hood.
 
Well I verified myself I knew I read it in that bible somewheres:


§ 61.23 Medical certificates: Requirement and duration.

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(a) Operations requiring a medical certificate. Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this section, a person—
(1) Must hold a first-class medical certificate when exercising the privileges of an airline transport pilot certificate;
(2) Must hold at least a second-class medical certificate when exercising the privileges of a commercial pilot certificate; or
(3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate—
(i) When exercising the privileges of a private pilot certificate;
(ii) When exercising the privileges of a recreational pilot certificate;
(iii) When exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate;
(iv) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate, except for a flight instructor certificate with a glider category rating or sport pilot rating, if the person is acting as pilot in command or is serving as a required flight crewmember; or
(v) Except for a glider category rating or a balloon class rating, prior to taking a practical test that is performed in an aircraft for a certificate or rating at the recreational, private, commercial, or airline transport pilot certificate level.
(b) Operations not requiring a medical certificate. A person is not required to hold a valid medical certificate—
(1) When exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate while seeking—
(i) A sport pilot certificate with glider or balloon privileges; or
(ii) A pilot certificate with a glider category rating or balloon class rating;
(2) When exercising the privileges of a sport pilot certificate with privileges in a glider or balloon;
(3) When exercising the privileges of a pilot certificate with a glider category or balloon class rating;
(4) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate with—
(i) A sport pilot rating in a glider or balloon; or
(ii) A glider category rating;
(5) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate if the person is not acting as pilot in command or serving as a required pilot flight crewmember;
(6) When exercising the privileges of a ground instructor certificate;
(7) When serving as an examiner or check airman during the administration of a test or check for a certificate, rating, or authorization conducted in a flight simulator or flight training device; or
(8) When taking a test or check for a certificate, rating, or authorization conducted in a flight simulator or flight training device.
(c) Operations requiring either a medical certificate or U.S. driver's license. (1) A person must hold and possess either a valid medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter or a current and valid U.S. driver's license when exercising the privileges of—
(i) A student pilot certificate while seeking sport pilot privileges in a light-sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon;
(ii) A sport pilot certificate in a light-sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon; or
(iii) A flight instructor certificate with a sport pilot rating while acting as pilot in command or serving as a required flight crewmember of a light-sport aircraft other than a glider or balloon.
(2) A person using a current and valid U.S. driver's license to meet the requirements of this paragraph must—
(i) Comply with each restriction and limitation imposed by that person's U.S. driver's license and any judicial or administrative order applying to the operation of a motor vehicle;
(ii) Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate);
(iii) Not have had his or her most recently issued medical certificate (if the person has held a medical certificate) suspended or revoked or most recent Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate withdrawn; and
(iv) Not know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make that person unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner.
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It is clear that the DPE does not need a medical which to me would mean they can not be PIC, as pointed out by Midlifeflyer. I was actually told by our professor in our CFI course that for the CFI ride at the FSDO to "remember you are PIC in a real emergency, that means if the examiner lands the plane and bangs it up it is on your ticket." Now granted the FSDO examiners are often much less proficient, sometimes not even current, then your local DPEs who are often rated and current. So if the DPE can take responsibility I am not sure, but I would assume if they were current proficient 5000+ hour DPE and you were a 50 hour private applicant and the engine set on fire that they would take the aircraft from you. :) It is their life too...
 
I know someone that had this happen recently. It was a commercial checkride. The engine cut out and they had to do an emergency landing. The DPE did not land.
 
amjon said:
I know someone that had this happen recently. It was a commercial checkride. The engine cut out and they had to do an emergency landing. The DPE did not land.
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It doesn't matter who lands, your PIC and you should decide. If you are a private pilot I would ask your DPE if he is current and same with instrument/commercial and you decide who is more proficient for an emergency.

My brief to my DPE for departure on my private ride was for him to take controls in the event of an engine failure below my safe altitude (800' AGL) above I could take controls unless he deemed it unsafe. But again, remember it is his life too so he isn't going to let you make a smoking hole, least not with him in the airplane.

For my CFI ride I had the airplane he was to restart and do check lists we would handle radios workload permitting
 
I had a total electrical failure on my CFI ride, I did everything until short final when he said "We don't know if the gear are actually locked, let me take this landing"



Guess what he made me do on the next try..............Emergency procedures
 
Hubbs said:
I would have though the DPE would require a medical, as they would be the 'safety pilot' whenever you are under the hood.
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You are correct, although it is possible for a DPE to be strictly an observer and have another pilot on board to act as safety pilot.

But the Designee Handbook makes the point moot anyway.
 
shdw said:
Well I verified myself I knew I read it in that bible somewheres:



It is clear that the DPE does not need a medical which to me would mean they can not be PIC, as pointed out by Midlifeflyer. I was actually told by our professor in our CFI course that for the CFI ride at the FSDO to "remember you are PIC in a real emergency, that means if the examiner lands the plane and bangs it up it is on your ticket." Now granted the FSDO examiners are often much less proficient, sometimes not even current, then your local DPEs who are often rated and current. So if the DPE can take responsibility I am not sure, but I would assume if they were current proficient 5000+ hour DPE and you were a 50 hour private applicant and the engine set on fire that they would take the aircraft from you. :) It is their life too...
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Change the bold to this:

Well it looks like they still need a medical, it was only for simulators. However, as midlifeflyer pointed out, they are not PIC for his reasons.

Sorry it appears I didn't read the FAR completely before posting it. Learn from my mistakes!
 
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