I'm going to County College of Morris in late August first for a year or 2 then transferring to a 4 year school. When I transfer to a 4 year school I wanna major in aviation management. Which school do you think has the best aviation management program? I'm considering Dowling College but would like to hear from SUNY Farmingdale and ERAU on opinions.
Dowling College vs SUNY Farmingdale vs ERAU
- Thread starter ktsai91
- Start date
I can only speak for Farmingdale. I graduated from the college in Aero Science and then became employed as an instructor there. I have seen the program in its worst and best. I can tell you that as an instructor there on the flight side of the curriculum, with the way things are going right now it is truly a pleasure to work here. The CP is outstanding, MX is the best I have ever personally seen at any school, and the overall quality of the flight center has dramatically improved.
To my understanding the CP is now allowing students from any discipline at Farmingdale to enroll in a flight course if they wish. That means that you can get a degree in anything you want at Farmingdale and enroll into a pilot course and get your certificates.
Training at KFRG can be difficult to say the least. For one, its a very busy airport. Many 135 operations going on, and plenty of flight schools on the feild. The airspace around here is complex. We sit underneath Bravo airspace. Charlie airspace just to our east. The weather here in the North East changes dramatically from season to season. So you get exposure to flying in just about everything. I actually like the fact that its a difficult training environment because student pilots who train here just get used to a really busy environment. When they fly elsewhere its mostly like taking a break!
If you have any other questions about FSC feel free to ask.
To my understanding the CP is now allowing students from any discipline at Farmingdale to enroll in a flight course if they wish. That means that you can get a degree in anything you want at Farmingdale and enroll into a pilot course and get your certificates.
Training at KFRG can be difficult to say the least. For one, its a very busy airport. Many 135 operations going on, and plenty of flight schools on the feild. The airspace around here is complex. We sit underneath Bravo airspace. Charlie airspace just to our east. The weather here in the North East changes dramatically from season to season. So you get exposure to flying in just about everything. I actually like the fact that its a difficult training environment because student pilots who train here just get used to a really busy environment. When they fly elsewhere its mostly like taking a break!
If you have any other questions about FSC feel free to ask.
youngflyer
Well-Known Member
I am currently at Dowling and think it is great here. All the professors here are top notch and will really go out of there way to make sure you know the stuff cold.
At Farmingdale State College, is it possible that I could take a flight course while majoring in business or aviation administration? Could I only take the flight course to get a private pilot certificate or even sport pilot certificate and no more than that? I don't want to become a professional pilot.
It used to be that you must be enrolled in Aeronautical Science to fly at FSC. Thats no longer the case. You can earn a business degree here and earn a private pilot certificate through the college. This is a brand new policy and not really advertized yet. If you want details, just do a search and call the Chief Pilot and talk to him about it. Hes very friendly. BTW The cost to fly here is not bad at all..Its a state funded school so the cost is actually pretty good. Apples to Apples, our instructors are paid decently well compared to other flight schools and we get full benefits. We are technically state employees! I'll say this again.. the program has been through some really tough times. However within the past year things have dramatically changed for the better and the outlook just keeps getting better. Now I know all the benefits of being an instructor here probably doesnt concern you at first... but really it should. An instructor who actually likes the place where they work will make all of the difference!
One more thing I should mention. If you do decide to enroll into Aviation Admin or any other discipline, just know that if you want to take a flight course.. such as earning your PPL at FSC, you must commit to a 3 day per week schedule. And the schedules are pretty much a Mon-Wed-Fri thing or a Tues-Thurs-Sat, with Sunday open for whatever.
One more thing I should mention. If you do decide to enroll into Aviation Admin or any other discipline, just know that if you want to take a flight course.. such as earning your PPL at FSC, you must commit to a 3 day per week schedule. And the schedules are pretty much a Mon-Wed-Fri thing or a Tues-Thurs-Sat, with Sunday open for whatever.
dondk
New Member
I started at Dowling, I agree it is top notch. I also worked for SUNY Farmingdale as an instructor. Granted it was in the "bad" days of the program so I am slightly biased.
Personally, I got a different degree (non aviation), and obtained all my ratings separately. The NY airspace is a great place to learn but you are paying a serious premium for the experience. Many times KFRG you can wait 30 minutes just to take off and/or get 8 mile finals for Rwy 19, neither will make you a better pilot, but you are paying by the hour for this experience.
The bottom line, what do you want? is it your desire to become a pilot or go into management? If your plans are management, then save the cash on the flight side. If you plans are as a pilot, the NY airspace experience is not worth the price for a primary certificate, it is worth the price for a rating though, perhaps instrument.
The bad I experienced at SUNY Farmingdale, they had a student with 95 hours who had yet to solo. That is bad, taking a persons money just to pad your logbook.
I have flown with a lot of ERAU grad's, I don't personally think their education was any better than what you can obtain from SUNY or Dowling. I do know though, most are having a hard time paying off their overpriced education from ERAU.
In the end, does anyone really care where you went to school? Do you know where your Doctor got his/her undergraduate from and in what discipline? Do you even know where your Doctor got his/her medical degree from? Don't focus on a name or a place for your education, just focus on getting a decent education.
Personally, I got a different degree (non aviation), and obtained all my ratings separately. The NY airspace is a great place to learn but you are paying a serious premium for the experience. Many times KFRG you can wait 30 minutes just to take off and/or get 8 mile finals for Rwy 19, neither will make you a better pilot, but you are paying by the hour for this experience.
The bottom line, what do you want? is it your desire to become a pilot or go into management? If your plans are management, then save the cash on the flight side. If you plans are as a pilot, the NY airspace experience is not worth the price for a primary certificate, it is worth the price for a rating though, perhaps instrument.
The bad I experienced at SUNY Farmingdale, they had a student with 95 hours who had yet to solo. That is bad, taking a persons money just to pad your logbook.
I have flown with a lot of ERAU grad's, I don't personally think their education was any better than what you can obtain from SUNY or Dowling. I do know though, most are having a hard time paying off their overpriced education from ERAU.
In the end, does anyone really care where you went to school? Do you know where your Doctor got his/her undergraduate from and in what discipline? Do you even know where your Doctor got his/her medical degree from? Don't focus on a name or a place for your education, just focus on getting a decent education.
holyshirt, I just called the Department of Aviation and they said that you have to go through the entire professional pilot course. I can't just only get a PPL. Are you sure that I could enroll in a flight course while taking other majors besides Aeronautical Science?
Also, do you know the Chief Pilot's phone number? I would like to call him if they have this kind of program you mentioned at FSC.
Also, do you know the Chief Pilot's phone number? I would like to call him if they have this kind of program you mentioned at FSC.
Call the Chief Pilot directly and speak to him. There are alot of new policies that are not yet known by everyone. I asked the CP myself and he said PPL is open to all degrees now at FSC.
Call Mike Hughes. 631-420-2532.
Be sure to get as much details as you can about how exactly to enroll into the flight course. Then, post up here what you found out - if you dont mind - so we can spread this information to others.
Call Mike Hughes. 631-420-2532.
Be sure to get as much details as you can about how exactly to enroll into the flight course. Then, post up here what you found out - if you dont mind - so we can spread this information to others.
If you ever come to Long Island.. Come check out the campus and the flight center. The Flight Center is not on Campus though. Might as well Check out Dowling too but IMHO dollar for dollar FSC is a better deal (youll probably save money being FSC is State and Dowling is Private) And like someone mentioned.. no one gives a care what school you went to anyway. Its all about experience in this business/career.
I've been to both FSC and Dowling. When I went to Dowling Brookhaven Campus, there wasn't a lot to see. It only has a dorm and a flight center besides the athletic fields. One thing I noticed about both schools is that FSC and Dowling are both commuter schools. Very few students live on campus. I'm worried that the campus life maybe not too good and that I won't make much friends over there. I'm considering some schools in NJ like Rutgers or Montclair State University. They have several dorms and they are both big state schools. They may not have aviation programs but hey, I could always fly on the side right?
You are right about FSC being mostly a commuter school but the nightlife around Farmingdale is pretty good overall and easy to make friends I think. I was a commuter and alot of my friends were guys who dormed there. Most of them ended up grouping together and renting apartments off campus in their senior years.
dondk
New Member
You are a great recruiter! Are you getting a kickback?
Looking at the flight fee's, FSC states the "average" PPL is $9,800 to $12,600. Dowling states the average $7900. Looking at the hourly rates, there is maybe a few buck's difference between the two schools. Although, I'd like to hear if you think FSC can finish a pilot to PPL faster than Dowling? (FSC states 70-90 hours, Dowling is 35 hours (I doubt they complete anyone at 35 hours))
The point, while FSC may be a few bucks cheaper hourly, it will take longer thus dollar for dollar in flight training it will cost more. Tuition is a different story, in-state FSC is a good deal, although after reading the FSC FAQ for flight training I have my doubts. Irregardless is a double negative. The correct usage is regardless, this is highlighted no less in the FAQ from FSC. Coming from an institution of higher learning, it is in poor taste
. While I am nitpicking on the FAQ, $120,000 for CRJ 70 Captain? What the heck is a CRJ 70? and $120K? Maybe a 15 year + check airman in the -700 clears 120K.Regardless, there is something to be said for the Part 61 schools, they are cheaper, you pick the hours to fly, and you can pick the aircraft you want. While I appreciate your recruiting efforts, it sounds like he is on the fence for an aviation degree (which means he is starting to think
). You don't need an aviation degree to be a pilot. Ask the furloughed guys/gals how beneficial the aviation degree is to them now. Again, this is assuming the end goal is a pilot. Most of the managers I know at my airline don't have aviation degree's. Heck, some of them have no degree at all. It is not about the name on the diploma, it is about the talent the person possesses.ktsai91, No one knows what this industry will be like in 3-4 years when you graduate. If you are thinking management, take the time and visit with corporate flight departments or charter operations. Heck, visit the manager at your local airport. If you are considering a career as a pilot, it can be done without an aviation specific degree. Flying should be driven by your passion, not by your education.
dondk
New Member
I am not against your opinion, although if you have seen it all, you should give the bad with the good. There is no perfect flight school/program, never will be. The person seeking the assistance should be given it all and let them decide. It just bugs me when people try to sell sunshine on a cloudy day.
C'mon now, an instructor who likes the place makes the difference? 95% of CFI's are looking for the next best thing. The last 5% either don't qualify for a 1st class medical or don't have the skills to get to the next best thing. How the place treats/pays a CFI has very little to do with how good they are. That is like saying the airline that has the best pay and benefits have the safest, happiest, and best pilots, and that is the only airline anyone should fly! I will say it again, it is the passion that makes the person, nothing else, not pay, education, work rules, or the aircraft.
DeuceOfAces
Well-Known Member
I'm a sophomore at Farmingdale (I'm actually typing this from the school computer lab) majoring in aviation admin so I hope you can find some utility in my perspective. Do you want to be a professional pilot or work in the biz side of aviation alone?
If you're looking into just the business side, I would recommend Vaughn College in Flushing NY (BTW, it is an ATC-CTI school if you're considering that) or dowling as you have suggested. All three have dorms but are major commuter schools. Vaughn is nearest to Manhattan (great nightlife
) and is literally across the block from Laguardia Airport. Those schools have better industry connections, IMO. And at Dowling, one of the professors (John Wensveen) has written textbooks on aviation, one of which I used in my intro to aeronautics class. Here it is - (http://www.amazon.com/Air-Transportation-Perspective-John-Wensveen/dp/0754671712)On the other hand, if you just want to become a pro-pilot, Farmingdale is better. Farmingdale has the cheapest tuition, even for an out-of-state student like you. The aviation admin degree here is basically just a standard business degree with some aviation electives added on (You can only choose the airport admin concentration or the air cargo concentration; and half of those classes will be online!). Vaughn and Dowling are better specialized in the aviation field. The option at Farmingdale to earn a major in something besides "B.S. in Professional Pilot" and still earn pilot certificates is something I hadn't heard about until now and sounds very interesting. I'm gonna be looking into that... One other thing about Dowling is that you have the option to take the "Executive Pilot" minor where you only get and have to pay for your private and instrument. Shirley Airport is also a lot less busy than FRG.
And lastly, I think that it is great that you're reconsidering the pro-pilot path or are considering alternate career paths. The number one reason why many airline pilots are having such a hard time in their careers can be explained by the laws of supply and demand, just like you learned in your ECON 101 class. There are more pilots than there are jobs. Excess resources = cheaper resources. And as for "learning to fly on the side" I sure hope you've got a good paying job are other source of income to do that. Flight schools in the new york area are much more expensive than in most other parts of the country. If you fly at a college though, you can cover the flying costs with your student loans and qualify for financial aid with that.